New #blog post: You can never be apolitical

https://rldane.space/you-can-never-be-apolitical.html

#CW: Deals with religion and politics

376 words

cc: my wonderful #chorus: @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton

(I will absolutely remove you from the chorus upon request  )

#100DaysToOffload #9

#rlDaneWriting #blost #USPOL #religion #Christianity #Trump #Musk

You can *never* be apolitical

@joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton

Now the real question is, do I go back this coming Sunday, and do I tell my friend (who invited me) about this #blost. :/

I had a much harsher blog post in mind a few days ago. A pleasant breakfast meeting with some Christian men did a lot to improve my mood. ^___^

@rl_dane
To be silent in this moment is to abandon the work of prophecy.

@blaue_Fledermaus

Ah, but there are so many wonderful prophets to choose from! You can pick your delusions with the best of them! There really is no limit!

😢

No, I get it. I just marvel that the prophetic gift, calling, and office has been so thoroughly prostituted in this day.

@rl_dane @blaue_Fledermaus the oldest profession meets the oldest prophescion
@rl_dane @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton I'm not Christian but reading some texts on Christian anarchism (totally unbiased 😉) convinced me that Jesus' message and ethics are absolutely rooted in politics. The violence of the state, especially with fascists in power, is antithetical with the peace and nonviolence values of Jesus.

@bogdanoviste @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton

I think you're right!

The work of the Gospel will always be antithetical to the trappings of power, always seeking out the lowly, the outcast, and the disenfranchised.

It took the American church manifesting its full monstrousness for me to be able to see Jesus' message with full clarity.

@rl_dane
You may want to come up to Kentucky and slap me for saying so, but I agree with your Pastors that politics should not be in the main message to a Church, usually on Sunday morning. Discussion groups sure, but not the service.
My own local Church of CenterPointe Christian on Sundays teaches the Word and living by it. We as the body of believers take God's Word and apply it to our daily walk in the world.
Tonight was my first session with a D-Group (Discipleship) of fellow guy believers. Politics was mentioned there, but more on a living out our faith aspect.

@joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

@solusspider @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

I definitely don't want to slap you, but in love, I will absolutely challenge you.

Who does your silence benefit?

Is there an important truth hiding inside of the folds of a carefully-constricted false dichotomy you might not have considered?

If Jesus wasn't neutral on the value of the harlot's tearful faith, the true size of the widow's mite, or the danger of the Pharisee's leaven, why are we neutral on anything where there is a clear line between good and evil?

How is it the church can speak out against vaccines and masks like they're some demonic thing, but remain quiet on the monstrous abuse of the stranger, the orphan, and the widow?

I cannot.

@rl_dane
Who says I am silent?

I am very vocal in other ways, especially online. You should see my posts and replies on Facebook.
Sunday mornings are for teaching the Word of God not bringing up politics.
They can certainly be discussed after the services.

@joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

@solusspider @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

But that is a form of silence: "Not bringing up politics."

My whole point is that while non-partisanship is acceptable and even laudable, being non-political is a contradiction-in-terms. Everything is political, particularly decisions to avoid politics.

It's one thing if we were talking about the usual kind of partisan politics. But we're way past that. We are in a very evil day, and for the church to just pretend that things are ok and that she doesn't have to speak to the issue is honestly just wrong.

@rl_dane @solusspider @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

I disagree that everything is political.

Politics, I argue, is almost more like a way of talking about things, like a proxy or symbolism; An abstraction.

Abstractions are _absolutely_ helpful, nay, necessary. All of language is an abstraction. But not all languages are equally good at expressing all things. And this is true of all abstractions, like sort of meta-languages.

Sciences, for example, are very big on these meta-languages. What the average person means by a word is likely not what a software engineer means by a word is certainly not what a biologist means by a word.

And thus is politics. It is supposed to be a meta-language for talking about societal issues. But just as a biologist and a software engineer have totally different goals despite both being scientists, there are many people with many different goals in politics.

A common language, as helpful and desirable as it is, is also impossible. Nothing can truly be all things to all people.

Thus politics is just _a way_ to talk about things, and often _not a helpful way_

@OpenComputeDesign @solusspider @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

But I'm not talking about politics as a language for describing issues. I'm talking about the artificial blindfold of "don't talk about politics," or in other words, "here are a list of subjects to avoid."

I'm saying that avoiding subjects when there is violence involved is itself a form of violence.

I'm saying that as someone who was abused, who couldn't get anyone in his family to talk about the abuse.

Enough of that fuckery.

*deep breath*

Sorry, raw moment.

@rl_dane @solusspider @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

This is clearly a topic that requires more care than I've given it. For which I apologize. I will admit to lacking a great deal of, what's the word... (Sorry, I'm *polite word to describe so tired as to be as though I had taken an unreasonable amount of drugs*) Erm, anyway.

My point, though, was not that we shouldn't talk about things. But rather more that "politics" ruins every word it touches until no one else wants to. And that, I feel, is why people don't want to talk about these things.

I'm uhm, not sure that's an entirely helpful concept either, though. Sorry

@rl_dane @solusspider @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

It is true, I _do_ feel the need to apologize for excessive apologies

@rl_dane
But if I'm _not_ a bad person, then why do I want people to _think_ I'm a bad person?

@OpenComputeDesign

Because it helps you deal with the internal conflict.
Your brain wants an easy resolution, and it is easier to self-condemn than walk the plank of a thousand cognitive dissonances as you try to imagine yourself any better than you are right now and wonder why you feel like you can't improve.

But you can. It's not even hard, once you give yourself a little hope.

@rl_dane I don't know, I'm pretty sure I'm a monster and there's no fixing that.

My parents are a bit "aren't you ever gonna get married?" right now, and I just can't imagine facing anyone, erm, face to face, knowing how evil I am inside

@OpenComputeDesign

Monsters don't usually think of themselves as monstrous. Monsters are usually not particularly self-aware.

@rl_dane I've seen a lot of people know very well they were a problem, and try their whole lives not to be a problem, and never stop being a problem

@OpenComputeDesign

Nobody can be a problem. That's ontologically an impossibility.

You can have problems, you can cause problems, but you can't be a problem.

@rl_dane
Let's get back to context.
You were originally talking about Sunday morning services and those messages.
To whom is the audience? Certainly not the world around, but rather the local church internal for teaching of the Word of God.
I think your concept of a local church is slanted by your far more Southern experience.

@joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton
My own understanding and teaching of the local church is based on verses such as this one:

Ephesians 4:11-13 ESVUK
"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,"

The "knowledge of the Son of God" can only come from the leadership teaching of the Word of God, to all of the "body of Christ".
To do what? For "the work of ministry".
It is then down to those of us who are believers to do that work, which I do personally.

@rl_dane @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton
BTW y'all, my reason for inviting @rl_dane to Kentucky to slap me, is so that I can take him out ...... for a coffee together, or beverage of his choice.

@joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

@solusspider @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

It's still a very artificial distinction to say that a church can't discuss political issues. Jesus obviously spoke on political issues in His sermons, example, the tower of Siloam in Luke 13:

1 About this time Jesus was informed that Pilate had murdered some people from Galilee as they were offering sacrifices at the Temple. 2 “Do you think those Galileans were worse sinners than all the other people from Galilee?” Jesus asked. “Is that why they suffered? 3 Not at all! And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God. 4 And what about the eighteen people who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? 5 No, and I tell you again that unless you repent, you will perish, too.”

How can leadership equip believers for the work of the ministry if there's an artificial gag order on some of the most pressing and distressing subjects of the day?

@solusspider @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton

Yes, the audience is primarily the local church, but the subject matter isn't just the Bible. i know that, because the bible doesn't just preach on the bible. Jesus doesn't just speak about the Bible. Just read Matthew 23! Very political!

@solusspider @sotolf @twizzay @krafter @roguefoam @thedoctor @clayton @dm @joel @rl_dane @pixx @adamsdesk @orbitalmartian

The church corporate in the USA has been bought and sold for 2-3 generations now; what’s taught in the pages of the New Testament bears little resemblance to the actual policies and public statements by most of evangelical American congregations / leaders.

#imnotbitter #grewupasapastorskid #thebibleteachesloveandacceptanceandtheforgivenessofsinsnotthejudgementofman

Y'all are free to listen to my local church's messages that are pure word of God.
https://mycpointe.com/messages/
Nothing to do with vaccines etc, but rather saturating us with Bible knowledge and worship in the Spirit.

@alatartheblue @sotolf @twizzay @krafter @roguefoam @thedoctor @clayton @dm @joel @rl_dane @pixx @adamsdesk @orbitalmartian
Messages

@solusspider @alatartheblue @twizzay @krafter @roguefoam @thedoctor @clayton @dm @joel @rl_dane @pixx @adamsdesk @orbitalmartian you don't use the bible? because that is a very political book, in so many ways, mostly homicadal genocidal rapey misagnyst politics, but that's also politics.
@sotolf
Confusedl?
Assuming "you" is my local church & I, what do you mean by we don't use the Bible?

@alatartheblue @twizzay @krafter @roguefoam @thedoctor @clayton @dm @joel @rl_dane @pixx @adamsdesk @orbitalmartian
@solusspider he is implying that since u said "my church doesn't preach about politics" therefore you're saying "my church doesn't use the bible to preach"

@sotolf @alatartheblue @twizzay @krafter @roguefoam @thedoctor @clayton @dm @rl_dane @pixx @adamsdesk @orbitalmartian
@solusspider @alatartheblue @twizzay @krafter @roguefoam @thedoctor @clayton @dm @joel @rl_dane @pixx @adamsdesk @orbitalmartian Because you said it has nothing to do with politics, the bible, when I read it is one of the more politic heavy books that I've ever read.
@sotolf
Oh I agree that the Bible is a political book.
I think there has been confusion on the context of this discussion.
@rl_dane originally brought up the teaching he received at a local church Sunday morning service. That message is for the local church body, not the world around.
As a believer I certainly discuss my political views, but it's at church that I get my grounding and teaching in the Word of God.

@alatartheblue @twizzay @krafter @roguefoam @thedoctor @clayton @dm @joel @pixx @adamsdesk @orbitalmartian
@solusspider @sotolf @rl_dane @alatartheblue @twizzay @roguefoam @thedoctor @clayton @dm @joel @pixx @adamsdesk @orbitalmartian

i think there is a huge difference between the politics of like social justice (what jesus talks about) and picking your favorite politician to blab about. the latter of which does not belong in a sunday morning service

@alatartheblue @solusspider @sotolf @twizzay @krafter @roguefoam @thedoctor @clayton @dm @joel @pixx @adamsdesk @orbitalmartian

Well, the declension of the church from the purity of the Gospel has been going on for millennia, with periods of revival and apostasy following each other to varying degrees.

The real question is, will you let their folly (whomever exactly it is they are) define what you are capable of? Will their ceiling be your ceiling or your floor?

Ok, that was corny, but I meant it kinda seriously. ;)

@solusspider @rl_dane @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton What is in the scope of "politics" is decided by evil people who have placed things like people's very existence, whether slavery should be brought back, etc. there. If you exclude anything which *they* deem politics, you let them dictate which (if any) vulnerable people, whom you have a religious mandate to offer shelter and benevolence to, you're actually able to do that for. I don't think that's what you intend, but it's the necessary outcome.
@rl_dane meeeh unless for any reason Elon Musk had been previously endorsed in some way by that church I have no idea why to bring it up.

I don't know, to me it's as useless as saying "kids should not use phones until they grow up," they know, you don't have to bring it up every time

@dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton
@rl_dane my bad, you're talking about the whole thing and not just the nazi salute thing

@dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton

@joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton

I mean, the salute was enough.

"Let's gather around and talk about the times we live in, and how to properly respond as Christians."

I would have been ecstatic to hear just that. But we didn't even get that much.

@rl_dane In this climate it is damn near impossible to be apolitical. You don't need to be outright rude, but at the same time the time for politeness is at an end.

Turn the other cheek, but do so to ensure your voice will be heard.

@joel @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton

@dm @rl_dane @joel @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton ignoring politics, not using ones privileldged pew to protect people seems very very political to me.

@dm @joel @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton

And honestly, I'm not even talking about trying to convince people, or rebuke people, but for leaders to equip their own people to do good in an evil day.

But they're not even doing that.

I remember an anecdote I heard years ago (I have no idea if there's even a shred of truth to it) in the context of pro-life: as the story goes, the trains full of condemned Jews would see that they were passing by a church and would cry out for help. The Christians in the churches would respond to the cries for help by singing their hymns even louder to drown out the unpleasant sounds.

This is exactly what pastors are doing today: saying nothing at 100 decibels.

@rl_dane @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @twizzay @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @solusspider @clayton

This is now displayed on my third monitor
Fascinating subject, thank you for sharing!

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