Mastodawn

Regcoppinger Nov 9, 2024

𝐿𝒶𝓃𝒶 "not yet begun to fight"

Men, I need you to understand something, and this is going to be difficult so I'm going to hold your hand while I say this.

If you:
- don't sexually assault women
- don't make jokes about sexually assaulting women
- don't support the sexual assault of women
- don't enjoy being in the company of men who do

That doesn't make you a "good man". Okay? You aren't a "good man" for not doing those things. That makes you a *normal man*. Those men, who get off on assaulting women? Those are predators. They aren't normal, and you don't get a trophy for not being a predator.

Okay?

Just tired of the bar being buried a dozen miles underground so how about we raise it up just a teensy bit.

Cleo of Topless Topics Nov 9, 2024

@Lana
Hannah Gatsby did a rant about this years ago that still rocks me to think about. The look of horror on all the male attendants' faces after clapping when she started out by saying "clap if you're a good man" and they all did automatically, only for her to then share similar thoughts of the criteria for good vs "normal" men...

Cleo of Topless Topics Nov 9, 2024

@Lana
I promise I'm not trying to coopt this for attention, it just feels relevant to link to the video I did inspired by that Hannah Gatsby video. (nonsexual female nipples visible in the video, unless you watch the patriarchy-safe male-nips-only version on YouTube). https://www.toplesstopics.org/goodmen/

Topless Topics Rants: The Fallacy of Good Men vs Bad Men (repost) – Topless Topics

Joan't Stop Me Now 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️😷Nov 9, 2024

@toplesstopics @Lana Ohh, that is excellent - I'd never seen this before, thank you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEPsqFLhHBc

Hannah Gadsby Full Speech: "The Good Men" & Misogyny | Women in Entertainment

YouTube

Gygesringtone Nov 9, 2024

As a dude, this is 100% true.

Not assaulting or other people should be the default state.

MyOpinion Nov 9, 2024

@Lana I am a good man because I actively try to make the lives better of the people in my life.

𝐿𝒶𝓃𝒶 "not yet begun to fight"Nov 10, 2024

@MyOpinion even the predators say that, all the while quietly redefining women as "not people".

MyOpinion Nov 10, 2024

@Lana If you are a predator you are not making peoples lives better and women are equally valuable people.

𝐿𝒶𝓃𝒶 "not yet begun to fight"Nov 10, 2024

@MyOpinion Men, I need you to hear me. So I'm going to try this one last time before blocking and moving on.

Predators don't think of themselves as "bad men". Every man thinks of himself as a "good" one, who is helping out the people he cares about. Predators just quietly redefine "person" as "only men".

Craig Stewart Nov 9, 2024

@Lana you're trying to tell me that just doing the absolute bare minimum to function in society isn't praise worthy? Who could possibly live up to such a high standard?

I am of course joking, you made a perfectly valid point, but I'm a child who needs to make stupid jokes, and it's depressing that I need to point out that I'm joking, but I've been on the internet long enough to know that someone would take this seriously if I didn't point out that I am joking.

Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀Nov 10, 2024

@Lana “You don’t get a trophy for not being a predator”
That’s the essence right there

Internet Rando Nov 10, 2024

@Lana Look, Now I know I'm just an internet rando, but I identify as male.

Thank you for making this distinction. I'm not sure I've ever conceptually separated "good" from "normal" before.

So right. Nobody should need a cookie for being normal.

1000% realize this whole post needs no reply from me. (literally, whoever I am).. So right. Nevertheless, thanks for saying this. Peace out.

@Lana I don't know of any dudes asking for a trophy. We're minding our business, trying to look after ourselves & our loved ones while constantly being told that we suck at being human. Not sure the men you're trying to reach are on here, but getting cheered on feels good, so enjoy that.

I'm not American, but can see why so many guys have voted as they did, there. I expect we'll face the same thing here next election & we're going to wind up with our own, worse, less orange version of Trump.

Leona Nov 10, 2024

@Moodre @Lana I think there's a misunderstanding here about "asking for a trophy". It's not meant literally. It's much more subtle, and can actually look a lot like your post.

You see why men voted for Trump because of posts expressing frustration about the low standard men are expected to live down to? How do those things connect?

And how does your lived experience tell you whether women see men metaphorically asking for trophies for doing the bare minimum? I sure see it myself.

@Lionesslady @Lana you're literally creating enemies from allies or neutral parties. Dudes who either sympathise with or are ambivalent about your 'plight', and are being told that we benifit from a rigged system and that all men are a problem. Is it the minimum wage guy with a massive mortgage (or skyrocketing rent), who's struggling with inflation you're yelling at? Those are the men who voted for your new leader. I'm disengaging, this is bad for my health.

𝐿𝒶𝓃𝒶 "not yet begun to fight"Nov 10, 2024

@Moodre @ if women need to walk on eggshells around you to avoid making you decide rape is good, actually, then you were never an ally to begin with.

The door's right there. I suggest you use it.

Lionesslady@mindly.social

𝐿𝒶𝓃𝒶 "not yet begun to fight"Nov 10, 2024

@Moodre and while we're at it,

There are no neutral parties on the subject of rape, asshole.

Leona Nov 10, 2024

@Moodre @Lana by all means, protect your health.

Leona Nov 11, 2024

@Moodre @Lana A, bless your heart for "liking" that. Do you know any southern women, by chance?

@Lionesslady @Lana 🤣 South of here are New South Welshmen (and women/others). We try not to mix with that kind - descended from thieves and livestock rustlers. They have funny teeth, and walk strangely. Terrible taste in music.

Naomi Nov 10, 2024

@ the inevitable reply guys (because this is a reply to you, not @Lana@beige.party who I agree with)

All members of groups that are known for their oppression will remain guilty by association, except for those individuals who are seen to be actively shunning, scorning and spurning the rest of their group, including those who say and do nothing.

And even then, there will be those who only do all that as projection, whose victims, instead of being believed, end up having to fight those who consider themselves allies too, because the 'allies' are still so biased that they'll place more trust in the lies of abusers with whom they otherwise have much in common, than victims they don't.

You're never going to be an ally if you can't let go of your pride and accept that you will never be fully trusted, no matter what you do. Only those who feel so ashamed of what those like them have done, that they no longer trust their own kind, just like that group's victims no longer can, are ready to start earning that trust back.

If you were, genuinely an ally, shame would make that word turn to ash in your mouth.

𝐿𝒶𝓃𝒶 "not yet begun to fight"Nov 10, 2024

@NaomiElizabeth

SanskritFritz Nov 10, 2024

@Lana
That first sentence of your post came to me as very condescending. You almost lost me at this. When I am treated like an idiot, I immediately pull up my shield.
I actually agree with the rest.
And I can see you must really be tired if you treat us like idiots. Maybe we are but telling us doesn't help much, believe me.

𝐿𝒶𝓃𝒶 "not yet begun to fight"Nov 10, 2024

@SanskritFritz "That first sentence of your post came to me as very condescending"

Don't give a shit.

"I actually agree with the rest."

There you go giving yourself that trophy again.

Gygesringtone Nov 10, 2024

@Lana @SanskritFritz

Not for nothing, but implying that someone needs to be perfectly polite and respectful in how they push back against normalized rape is part of what normalizes rape. You should stop that.

And before we get into "I was just trying to give her constructive criticism on how to reach a wider audience" no you weren't. If it's not explicitly asked for, it's not constructive, it's just criticism.

SanskritFritz Nov 10, 2024

@Gygesringtone @Lana
Nope. I was indicating that she is an asshole.

𝐿𝒶𝓃𝒶 "not yet begun to fight"Nov 10, 2024

@SanskritFritz bitch who asked you?