Mastodawn

Launch of Social Web Foundation

Leaders of the open social networking movement have formed the Social Web Foundation, a non-profit organization dedicated to making connections between social platforms with the open standard protocol ActivityPub.

The “social web”, also called the “Fediverse”, is a network of independent social platforms connected with the open standard protocol ActivityPub. Users on any platform can follow their friends, family, influencers, or brands on any other participating […]

https://socialwebfoundation.org/2024/09/24/launch/

Launch of Social Web Foundation

Leaders of the open social networking movement have formed the Social Web Foundation, a non-profit organization dedicated to making connections between social platforms with the open standard proto…

Social Web Foundation

undrendo Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou
@pluralistic
The moment they speak of "leaders" they've already lost me, unfortunately. In a democracy I want "representatives" or something similar, not "leaders". Democracy means that the people lead, not that the people follow.

I hope it's just a slip of language on their part.

💙💛:~/eu/pl/priv$

@pglpm @evanprodromou @pluralistic
Yes there is more strange wording in that text.
E.g. we have there a quote by the CEO of Vivaldi "We are competing against silos" and a moment earlier a man of one of these silos (meta) declares (in another quote) that ‘"interoperability is an important part of ... our vision of threads". XD...
And you know or maybe not - the planned meta "interoperability" (whatsapp <> matrix) will require to sign agreement by each matrix server want to exchange messages.

undrendo Sep 25, 2024

@miklo @evanprodromou @pluralistic

I agree. It's tricky to keep decentralization when you start giving weight to centralizing bodies.

Saw the evolving Meta question. Personally I'm not interested in interacting with Meta, but it's good that a person has the freedom to choose between servers which interact with Meta and servers which don't.

william.maggos Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory

my only concern here is that I want a social web as open as the original internet. only moderate for bothering people, not misinfo or bad ideas. liberal not left leaning.

https://liberal.city/@wjmaggos/113192671986070651

william.maggos (@[email protected])

The web is full of shit but we mostly don't see it cause nobody we know links to it. Obscurity protects us. Anybody can post anything but there's no algo making sure that we see something that upsets us when we open a browser. There's no economic incentive for engagement. We don't need mods scouring the web making sure it won't upset anyone. Similarly, the fedi can do free speech better than corporate platforms because there's no pressure to chase profit here. That's the trade-off. #SocialWeb

Liberal City

Stefanie Janine Stölting Sep 24, 2024

@wjmaggos @evanprodromou @ohmallory If you don't want to see left content, don't follow people who write or share left content.
As there's no federated timeline here, it should be easy.
But also left political statements are free speech.

william.maggos Sep 24, 2024

@sjstoelting @evanprodromou @ohmallory

sorry if I was unclear. I want everyone able to see all content. my worry is that right leaning content (and far left stuff too if it's angry) is biased against. if people are not tagged or hashtags spammed, let people access it. even horrible shit and lies. maximize network openness. as you say, people won't see it if they don't search it out.

but moderate the hell out of people forcing junk on others. and defederate servers that don't police for this.

Adam Lein Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory
The DM thing here (https://socialwebfoundation.org/program-protocol-e2ee/) sounds like a bad idea. We already have a standard protocol for that; email... upgrade e2ee standard for that first. Plus, don't most Social Web servers already send emails to users for things like password resets and notifications? Why complicate things with double messaging systems? Public and private should be completely separate: https://bookofadamz.com/the-fediverse-should-avoid-bundling-private-messages-completely-and-implement-this-instead/

End-to-end Encryption (E2EE) over ActivityPub

Encrypted direct messages supply the confidence that people need to connect with family, friends and colleagues privately over a social network. As part of the Summer of Protocols 2024, we explore …

Social Web Foundation

James M.Sep 24, 2024

@Adam by that logic, why should we have text messengers at all, if we already have email? There are different protocols and tools for different purposes and personal styles, even if those purposes overlap. All should use e2ee.

The problem is that people here already have expectations of privacy when they send DMs, just like in other tools that provide messaging. And they should! Encryption is well-established technology and should be baked into any new protocol. Email is something of an anomaly in that it's not encrypted. I would love to see e2ee in email too, and there have been multiple efforts to add it, but that's no reason to delay adding e2ee to other protocols and tools.

I think the lack of e2ee in AP is a major weakness and is multiple privacy disasters waiting to happen. I am thrilled that the AP folks have decided to add e2ee to messaging, including group messaging. I have advocated for it for a while.

@evanprodromou @ohmallory

Adam Lein Sep 24, 2024

@jamesmarshall @evanprodromou @ohmallory "why should we have text messengers at all, if we already have email?" - Exactly! The only reason I can think of is so that corporations who create a proprietary new messaging protocol can enslave and abuse a large portion of the population. It's the "enshittification" business model which doesn't work when the protocol is open.

witchescauldron Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory

The #NGO path is a mess, but maybe a needed mess.

How to get dancing elephants and paper planes into a “foundation” model

* Do something different - dancing elephants and paper planes.

* Do something normal - control freekery and power politics games.

* Do nothing - maybe it all just carries on or more likely decay and irrelevances.

#Activertypub is the first option, and this is why we love it and are having this conversation.

Some links on this https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/what-would-a-fediverse-governance-body-look-like/1497/7

Ps. can you post some links to the #openprocess that resulted in this thanks, am interested in documenting how these things happen.

What would a fediverse "governance" body look like?

Good questions. This post is in reaction to people talking about the same project but as a traditional opensource “foundation”. Am thinking people are seeing the #dotcons sniffing about the #openweb and what we can do to defend ourselves - like setup the higharacy before they come in and set it up “for” us. Thus, the #bluesky tag - its trying to think outside this traditional path, so we think BEFORE we inevitably go down it this kinda crap path.

SocialHub

Wendy Seltzer (she/her)Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory Congratulations! I look forward to following

Evan Prodromou Sep 24, 2024

Thank you!

wandi Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory@socialwebfoundat ion.org
Foundation of the movement leaders

Stefanie Janine Stölting Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory Congrats for co-founding this organization and your position.

Anuj Ahooja Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory Very very excited about this 👏🏼 congrats!

Evan Prodromou Sep 24, 2024

@quillmatiq @evanprodromou @ohmallory Thank you!

yuki - queen of the snow Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou i think you got ur content warning wrong. also, fyi, you don't need to add links to users profile when you tag them in a post, adding links is usually pretty annoying because then it opens in a remote instance on most software

Matthias Pfefferle Sep 24, 2024

@yukijoou there is no content warning. the post simply uses a summary!

Stian Sep 24, 2024

Not even Evan Prodromou can post on this platform without people jumping in to explain to him how he's doing it wrong. Amazing.
@pfefferle @yukijoou

yuki - queen of the snow Sep 25, 2024

@pfefferle well there's clearly a content warning on my instance!

Matthias Pfefferle Sep 25, 2024

@yukijoou what platform are you on? is it using the old mastodon way: simply use the summary as warning, without checking for the sensitive flag? https://docs.joinmastodon.org/spec/activitypub/#sensitive

ActivityPub - Mastodon documentation

A decentralized social networking protocol based upon the ActivityStreams 2.0 data format and JSON-LD.

Martijn Vos Sep 25, 2024

@pfefferle @yukijoou

I notice that when I (on Friendica) respond to a Mastodon post with a content warning, I get an <abstract> element, and it certainly doesn't act as a content warning. So there seems to be some inconsistency in implementation.

That said, I'm not getting a content warning from this post.

Matthias Pfefferle Sep 25, 2024

@mcv @yukijoou mastodon uses `as:sensitive` to check if the summary is a summary or a content warning. https://docs.joinmastodon.org/spec/activitypub/#sensitive

I really like the idea of the sensitive flag, because to use the summary as a synonym for content-warning harms the spec.

Maybe we have to file some issue!?!

ActivityPub - Mastodon documentation

A decentralized social networking protocol based upon the ActivityStreams 2.0 data format and JSON-LD.

Matthias Pfefferle Sep 25, 2024

or maybe it is because the WordPress plugin does not send an `as:sensitive: false` yet. we have a PR for that, I will try to release a new version to see if this will fix it. https://github.com/Automattic/wordpress-activitypub/pull/900

can I maybe ping you two, to run a test on your instances @mcv @yukijoou ?

Content warnings! by mattwiebe · Pull Request #900 · Automattic/wordpress-activitypub

We now support content warnings! They are per-post. fix #757 #176 Proposed changes: Adds a "Fediverse" settings section to the post editor that allows entering a content warning. The wa...

GitHub

Martijn Vos Sep 25, 2024

@pfefferle @yukijoou

Sure. If there's anything I can do to help fix this, I'd love to.

Martijn Vos Sep 25, 2024

@pfefferle @yukijoou

A sensitive flag sounds like a great idea, but repurposing a summary as content warning based on a flag sounds like a bad idea to me. If there's no explicit content warning field, I think a spoiler tag is a better fit, because that already functions similarly without the flag.

But I'd prefer an explicit content warning field. There's clearly a need for it, and if it's explicit, you could set your client to always show or hide certain content.

Matthias Pfefferle Sep 25, 2024

@mcv @yukijoou sure, overloading a different field is always bad!

witchescauldron Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory

Can we get a link to the #openprocess that brought this together please #4opens #openweb #fediverse just to get an idea how "native" it will be. This #NGO path might be needed as the grassroots path is currently not working.

Dr. Quadragon ❌Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory Turn the page, we start another chapter

lucky🍀, katabatic canine Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory is there no RSS/ATOM feed for the blog?

Evan Prodromou Sep 26, 2024

I think you can get it at http://socialwebfoundation.org/feed but I agree that we should include it in the UI and the so it’s more discoverable. Consider me on it!

Yash Ghelani Sep 26, 2024

@evanprodromou Is there a GitHub repo for the SWF website that accepts contributions like minor UI fixes?

Evan Prodromou Sep 26, 2024

We have a github repo for our WordPress theme. We haven’t accepted any contributions and I can’t promise we’re going to keep using this codebase for very long, but if you have some ideas fire away:

https://github.com/social-web-foundation/swf-wordpress-theme

GitHub - social-web-foundation/swf-wordpress-theme: Custom theme for socialwebfoundation.org

Custom theme for socialwebfoundation.org. Contribute to social-web-foundation/swf-wordpress-theme development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub

Yash Ghelani Sep 26, 2024

@evanprodromou Got it! Thanks!

Samir Al-Battran Sep 24, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory
Congrats, Evan!
This is a great step forward

Asil Igarl🍉Sep 25, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory

Nemo_bis 🌈Sep 25, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory Are the bylaws available?

Spark Purcell (they/them)Sep 25, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory
who elected these "leaders"?

Reminds me of that old monty python sketch... (https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/04/18/strange-women-lying-in-ponds-distributing-swords-is-no-basis-for-a-system-of-government/)
And why are you mislabeling it as "social" instead of the real motivation of some of those groups, imposing capitalism and commodification on human community communication. Fuck that shit.

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government…

This morning I came across this classic clip from The Monty Python and the Holy Grail film. Ever after 40 years, it is still a great send-up of our political system. Enjoy. A self-perpetuating autocracy King Arthur: Old woman! Dennis: Man. King Arthur: Man, sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there? Dennis: I’m 37. King Arthur: What? Dennis: I’m 37. I’m not old. King Arthur: Well I can’t just call you “man”. Dennis: Well you could say “Dennis”. …

Slugger O'Toole

Spark Purcell (they/them)Sep 25, 2024

@evanprodromou @ohmallory people who want advertising on fedi aren't leaders they're destroyers...

Shlee fooled around &Sep 26, 2024

@evanprodromou please consider shared services to lower total cost of ownership and increase quality of service

My pet peeve is https://shlee.fedipress.au/2024/call-to-action-fediverse-media-server/

Call to Action: Fediverse Media Server

Edit: So to put my money where my mouth is - Right now storage is costing me around $150AUD a month - so if somebody can build a media server we can share/deploy and offer it for all of the Fediverse instances... I will give them a minimum of $3600AUD [...]

Shlee

Evan Prodromou Sep 26, 2024

Thanks! I’ve seen this idea around a bit. I think there are some interesting P2P media technologies like IPFS that could be helpful, too. But I’ll add this to our potential projects list.

Shlee fooled around &Sep 26, 2024

@evanprodromou I think this needs safe stable design so ipfs feels like a distraction. Maybe for backup/HA failover