I am talking o a reporter about this in a couple hours: https://regina.ctvnews.ca/from-outer-space-sask-farmers-baffled-after-discovering-strange-wreckage-in-field-1.6880353

This is about an hour away from my farm, so this'll be a fun conversation, and yet another great opportunity to tell a lot of people about what a huge problem we have with unregulated commercialization of orbit. (Also I just redid my slides for my public talk next week, this is going in!)

From outer space? Sask. farmers baffled after discovering strange wreckage in field

A family of fifth generation farmers from Ituna, Sask. are trying to find answers after discovering several strange objects lying on their land.

Regina

Interview done. I emailed Jonathan McDowell @planet4589 to ask if he had info on a possible reentry, and he immediately found it, and even had the ground track already calculated! Thank you for this meticulous tracking, Jonathan! (Because the satellite companies sure as shit aren't sharing this info!)

It was a Dragon Trunk from the Axios 3 mission, reentered on Feb 26. The reporter is going to send me contact info for the farmer who found it, so at least I can tell him what it is.

I'm now going to email everyone I know who works at CSA.

I'm *super* curious what is going to happen with this (probably nothing).

But if I can get SpaceX in trouble for dropping garbage on Canada from orbit, then I will use every power I have to make that happen!

I called the farmer who found the pieces! He is super mad that SpaceX is saying that this is safe, when clearly very large pieces are making it to the ground (and this kind of thing is TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE according to every launch and reentry regulating body. Wild.)

He said I could come take a look at the pieces after he's done seeding in a few days (because, Saskatchewan). He also really liked the idea of sending a bill to SpaceX for littering on his property. This could be a lot of fun!

HAHAHA they added my interview in to the redone version of the new story: https://regina.ctvnews.ca/from-outer-space-sask-farmers-baffled-after-discovering-strange-wreckage-in-field-1.6880353

And apparently it made national news(?!), because someone I'm on a committee with in Ontario said she saw me. I think it's time to go to bed (and hope for no more reentries...)

From outer space? Sask. farmers baffled after discovering strange wreckage in field

A family of fifth generation farmers from Ituna, Sask. are trying to find answers after discovering several strange objects lying on their land.

Regina

I just got an email back from one of the CSA people I contacted yesterday, and they just sent me SpaceX's media inquiry email. Given than literally every article that talks about SpaceX has "SpaceX did not respond to a request for comment" in it, this is...less than helpful πŸ™„

Edit to add: I just noticed it says "UNCLASSIFIED" in all caps at the top of the email, which is...hilarious? Man this situation just keeps getting weirder. I hope some journalists pick up on this.

Ok the latest twist in this saga: a different person at CSA emailed me and asked if I had the farmer's contact info, because they want to buy samples of it?!! This is getting more hilarious with every email

Oh my gosh it just keeps coming. So, I reached out to a colleague who I trust and respect on space law issues, asking them what actually the law says about space junk on someone's farm in another country. And I fully expected to hear something like "oh yes, the Outer Space Treaty says this and this" with clear directions.

Instead, they asked for the farmer's contact info so THEY COULD TRY TO BUY THE SPACE JUNK

That's the hardest I've laughed in a really long time. Wow.

Well, I again didn't get a big giant thing done that I've been procrastinating on for months because it sucks. But I did learn a hell of a lot about space law and I have a feeling I will have zillions of news interview in the next few days, which is great! I hope this gets lots of people talking about unregulated commercialization of orbit!

Quitting work stuff for the day. Time for goats, auroras, and wondering if my trip to Toronto will actually happen or if space weather will cancel it...

ok jumping back into this thread because hahahaha I can't believe everything that's happening.

I found out during a live radio interview this morning that someone claiming to be from SpaceX did indeed call the farmer, and ask to get the space junk back from him. But it sounds like whoever contacted him has absolutely no idea how rural Saskatchewan works. There is no FedEx. There are no addresses. This is going to be harder to recover than they thought.

I talked to a couple of space law experts to find out what to even advise the farmer on this. I had sort of thought that since it's in another country and it fell on private property, it belongs to the property owner.

But it is much more complicated than that, because of the Outer Space Treaty.

What *should* have happened is Global Affairs Canada should have contacted the US State Department, who should have contacted SpaceX.

But I think what actually happened was someone somewhere else in the Canadian gov't saw a news interview and told SpaceX.

The space law experts I talked to agreed that since SpaceX has now asked for it (assuming it *is* SpaceX), the farmer has to surrender it. BUT he should ask for compensation.

If there had been damage, the US gov't would have had to compensate the Canadian gov't, but because it's a private company, and no damage happened, compensation is voluntary

I chatted with the farmer again, and he's doing everything right! He asked for proof that the person was from SpaceX. He asked them to donate to the local skating rink. He's being careful at every step. He's doing a great job of dealing with a totally bizarre situation that very few people in the world have ever had to deal with.

I'll be heading up to visit him and see the junk over the weekend once I'm back in Sask, he seemed pretty confident that he'd still be in possession of it.

I have so many interview requests that I'm actually starting to lose track of them at this point...

But I'm really glad there is so much interest. This is terrifying stuff: SpaceX and other companies are dumping stuff on the ground that could very easily kill people. Countries need to enforce the rules that already exist, and the regulations NEED to be updated to take into account how terrifyingly many re-entries are happening now.

Augh I have an interview written on my calendar happening soon but I can't find it anywhere in my email.... oh noooooo I need a better system.
I have now done 5 interviews about Saskatchewan space junk from a random empty classroom at University of Toronto.
I'm going to CBC studios in Toronto tomorrow morning for an interview and coffee with a science journalist that I'm totally going to fangirl about! This is exciting (but it means I have to shift 2 other interviews I had already scheduled...haha this is so hilarious)
Nicole Mortillaro gave me a hug after the interview! ❀️ ❀️ ❀️
...and let me just say that it is fucking surreal to get texts from my partner about baby goats while I'm trying not to completely freak out walking through downtown Toronto after a CBC interview.
I'll write much more about this later, but... this happened:

So...this saga is ongoing, but here's the latest. I met the farmer on Saturday. He is incredibly nice, and his memory and deductive reasoning powers are impressive! It was really fun to chat and learn from him all the information he pieced together on his own, just from studying the piece of space junk. Farmers = engineers!

He also showed me the official lawyer-y-but-polite email he got from SpaceX. They said they will come pick up the piece from him, and they will compensate him. Good!

Legally, he's supposed to turn over the space junk to the owners, and he doesn't want to fight SpaceX, especially if they are being polite and provide a healthy donation to the Ituna skating rink as he requested.

But it's totally unclear if Canada has any laws on the books that could be actually used to compel a Canadian citizen to hand over a piece of space junk to a company in another country. So, from a space law standpoint, it would be a lot more "fun" if he refused. What would happen?

After meeting him, I drove around the area - if that big a piece (it's 100 pounds and 4 feet by 6 feet) made it to the ground intact, then smaller pieces definitely did too. We didn't find anything, of course. It's a HUGE area to search.

But I got a piece of paper and wrote "Did you find space junk? Call me!" with my name and number and left it on the small town co-op bulletin board, and I talked to the small town newspaper journalist who first wrote about it.

So the saga will continue...

The only time I go to my campus office in the summer is for media interviews about space junk, apparently?

(Also, today I learned CTV journalists do it all themselves! This impressive journalist set up the camera shots and did all the filming while also interviewing me. Wow.)

I learned that SpaceX is only going to pay the farmer $5,000 for the space junk that could have killed him. I'm glad they're paying, but that's piddly for a megacorporation owned by an awful billionaire that dumped hazardous garbage on his property.

He said he passed along SpaceX's contact info to others nearby who he thinks may have also found pieces of junk (he hinted that someone nearby may possibly have found an even bigger piece than his).

And I saw a media statement from the Canadian Space Agency that said people who find space junk shouldn't contact them, they should contact local emergency services. Which is... really dumb? What is an RCMP officer stationed in small-town Saskatchewan going to do with space junk?! I'm super not impressed.

The saga continues...

Got 2 interview requests within 3 minutes. People are still interested! Excellent.
(How many TV news interviews can I be on wearing the same sweater?)

Just to keep this crazy thread going: https://m.ai6yr.org/@firefly/112497343686542787

So, this is a new piece of SpaceX junk (from the same type of "fully demisable" Crew Dragon trunk as the piece in Saskatchewan), that fell on North Carolina, USA. Maybe the American gov't will pay more attention now? (Maybe the Canadian gov't too, who knows)

Why does SpaceX think it's ok to experiment with dropping giant pieces of space junk on us?!

Robin (@firefly@m.ai6yr.org)

Another piece of Elon’s Space Trash, perhaps? https://wlos.com/news/local/haywood-county-man-finds-heavy-mysterious-object-possibly-outer-space-landed-remote-trail-canton-aerospace-expert-input-glamping-collective# Cc: @ai6yr

AI6YR's Mastodon

I just did a double interview with Jonathan McDowell for a (very overwhelmed) reporter in North Carolina! Again - very glad people are starting to care!

I learned from Jonathan that there have been 23 Crew Dragon Trunk reentries so far. 10 have been over water, 8 are in inaccessible places (deep desert/jungle/lost), and 3 of the remaining 5 have now had very large pieces found on the ground. Not great odds...

I'm going to go outside and snuggle goats now. Wowee what a week.

This article really covers a lot of the interesting grey areas of international law and satellites dropping on people: https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/space-debris-responsibility-1.7211473

And Jonathan McDowell hinted that a piece of one of the other Dragon Trunks that fell near Colorado Springs has been recovered. So that means giant pieces of debris have been found for 4 out of 5 reentries that were possible to recover.

SpaceX, you suck. Stop dropping giant space junk pieces on us. Maybe stop making space junk, period?!

ANALYSIS | Space junk is raining from the sky. Who's responsible when it hits the Earth? | CBC News

With thousands of satellites in orbit and record numbers of rocket launches, experts warn there's a growing risk of space debris crashing into the Earth β€” and possibly hitting somebody.

CBC

Hey Calgary! I'll be live on QR Calgary/630 CHED radio at 11:30 MDT/CST today talking about space junk (I'm going to set an alarm for myself right now so I don't forget)

And Global News interviewed me and the farmer who found the debris a few days ago and that story is up now: https://globalnews.ca/news/10523044/saskatchewan-space-junk-liability-outer-space/

I talked to the farmer over the weekend and he said he called our MP who called him right back within 30 minutes! I called him over the weekend and he hasn't called yet... will he call me later?

Space junk falling on Saskatchewan farmland prompts question: who’s liable?

Barry Sawchuk farms with his three sons near Ituna, close to Regina, and was checking out the moisture in his fields at the end of April when he found the item.

Global News

Since the Outer Space Treaty that covers space junk is a nation-to-nation treaty, that could be a pretty interesting way to assert some First Nation sovereignty if any SpaceX pieces are found on First Nation land...

I just cold-called the band offices of 2 First Nations that own reserve land right near where the space junk was found and offered to help make connections if anyone finds space junk on their land.

Time for audience participation: have any of you seen any news articles about the SpaceX pieces in Saskatchewan or North Carolina where SpaceX has publicly admitted that it's theirs? Or even responded to a journalist in any way at all? I think they still haven't publicly admitted it

(Although I saw a printout of the email from SpaceX to the farmer, so they have certainly admitted it to him)

Oops apparently the radio show I just got interviewed for was in Edmonton, not Calgary. Hi Edmonton! I was maybe a little pessimistic on that interview, sorry, especially when I ended with "Clear skies... and look out for falling space junk!"

I'll be on another radio show for 900 CHML in Hamilton at 3:20 EDT. I'll try to make sure I'm in a less darkly sarcastic mood...

oh nooo that interview was even more sarcastic! I should have eaten lunch first rather than giving a hangry interview. Sorry, Hamilton. I'm going to go eat lunch now...
My MP never called me. Not sure whether to be annoyed (because my MP personally called back an old white farmer dude who found space junk but not a woman scientist who studies it), or relieved (because I don't actually want to talk to my conservative MP, who I disagree with on just about everything).

Got an email from my MP's office saying they'll forward the email on to the actual MP to read. So... maybe I'll have to talk to him today haha.

Now I'm trying to figure out an email chain with someone in the Canadian gov't who actually wants to come out here and look for debris, but they email only in bureaucrat-ese so I'm not even sure exactly what they're asking or when they might come or who to ask for help... This could be very interesting, or really frustrating and weird, not sure...

WELL I just looked at the cute little prairie newsletter in my inbox from The Flatlander https://theflatlander.ca/ and uh... that's me in the picture for story number 2, despite me not having been interviewed by them.

Time for bed!

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Turns out I've had a giant misunderstanding with someone who's been talking about going out to find pieces and map out the debris field... I thought they were planning to come here, but they were actually asking me to price out my "university research services" doing the fieldwork. My university doesn't have magical "research services" to do fieldwork, and I'm the only astronomer, so it would just be ME.

That is...a lot to ask me to do, especially since I'm not trained for this...sigh.

@sundogplanets maybe they’re saying they’ll fund you to build a research team to do it?
@sundogplanets Just send them a "I look forward to seeing you, can you confirm the following" and add bullets they can respond yes or no to. Most pols are dumb as dirt and incapable of clarity.
@sundogplanets The old white farmer dude may be part of your MP's base. As a scientist, you may not be. Therein lies the difference.
@sundogplanets I hope you didn't bite anybody!

@sundogplanets

Don’t look up! 😱

@sundogplanets
I like your dark sarcastic mood πŸ’•
@sundogplanets nope, all the stories I've seen say SpaceX did not respond when asked about the object.
@sundogplanets Thank you for doing this important work πŸ‘
@sundogplanets I was just scrolling through it and suddenly laughed - you were grinning next to a chunk of SpaceX garbage
@sundogplanets $5000 per piece of space junk is a trivial cost for SpaceX. We need government protections in place.

@sundogplanets > SpaceX, you suck. Stop dropping giant space junk pieces on us. Maybe stop making space junk, period?!

I imagine SpaceX shrugging like the Tesla manager quoted in this article about suspensions breaking and cars being vulnerable to car washes:

β€œAll I can tell you is we’re not a 100-year-old company like GM and Ford. We haven’t worked all the bugs out yet.”

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/

@sundogplanets in another world, ie not this #capitalist hellscape, they’d get into trouble for this. Fuck #SpaceX
@sundogplanets That basically says they know the trunks don't burn up completely and they don't care. :/
@sundogplanets If you eventually get a link to the article, let me know. I’d love to read it.
@sundogplanets Thank you for keeping everyone in the loop. This saga is QUITE fascinating. And enjoy the goats!

@sundogplanets

Why does SpaceX think it's ok to experiment with dropping giant pieces of space junk on us?!

My guessβ€”and it's just a guessβ€”is that SpaceX doesn't think of us at all.

@sundogplanets πŸ€” I wonder how long before space junk causes a forest fire? (I know this is unlikely)

@WTL @sundogplanets

These days the question is, how would you spot the space junk fire among all the other wildfires.

@jonhendry @sundogplanets Indeed. πŸ€” suppose you could overlay known re-entires over fire maps and see if the time lines up. πŸ€” Someone clever could probably automate that.
@WTL @sundogplanets Canada, for one, is big and full of drying-out woods, maybe it has happened already.

@WTL @sundogplanets By the time debris from spacecraft reaches the ground; it has cooled off from re-entry.

The risk from SpaceX's littering is meter-wide chunks of metal and carbon fiber coming down at terminal velocity.

@michael_w_busch @WTL @sundogplanets There was that chunk of metal that crashed through the roof of a house in Florida. It was not hot enough to start a fire, but did damage the house.

@EricFielding @WTL @sundogplanets At least the Crew Dragon trunk sections do not contain large tanks.

Let no one repeat what happened downrange from Xichang.

@michael_w_busch @EricFielding @sundogplanets πŸ€” No kidding. Or Kosmos 954 in the Northwest Territories in the late 70s.

@sundogplanets

Someone recently remarked that if you hung a bag of money off the edge of a cliff, the tech bros would still jump for it, on the assumption they'd pull enough cash to buy a parachute on their way down.

You don't want to know how many CTOs have told me, "We'll fix that if/when it becomes a problem." You really don't want to know.

@sundogplanets

I guess, to be fair, their only difference from the rest of us is what their carrot is made of…

@teledyn @sundogplanets They do that because people buy the crap they make with that method.

@bjb @sundogplanets

Very often it's their vc buds who buy the crap concept on the promise the method will make it, or at least launder some β€” um β€” 'problematic assets'. The Fine Art world isn't much different.

@teledyn @sundogplanets can confirm. source: was cto.

@teledyn @sundogplanets It *is* sometimes the right answer.

For example.

Cambridge City Council was drawing up a new constitution, and I reckoned I'd spotted a bug in it - the licencing of zoos was in the wrong department or portfolio or something.

"Tell you what," the lawyer said, "instead of rewriting that bit just now, how's about we worry about that if/when it becomes a problem?"

(Cambridge City Council has never received an application to licence a zoo, before or after the constitution change. And actually I do like lawyers who are pragmatic rather than anally risk-averse.)

@sundogplanets
That's why I prefer radio interviews...
@sundogplanets Let’s get a sweater made for you that says http://bit.ly/toomanysats on the front πŸ˜†
Take Action Menu β€” Kessler Rebellion

Kessler Rebellion
@sundogplanets all of them.
buy/make more sweaters looking the same!

@sundogplanets
Just wanted to tell you that this is the best thread ever! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Want to know what will get space junk precipitation regulated fast? When a piece takes out a rich person.

@Mikal @sundogplanets Wait! I just thought of a new kind of defenestration. Gets rid of a rich person, and destroys their industry in one fell swoop.

@obviousdwest @sundogplanets

Yeah, instead of launching billionaires into space, we need to launch some space into them.

@sundogplanets

It’s called personal branding. ;)

@sundogplanets all of them. Make it part of your brand.
@sundogplanets Thanks again for the updates. Just un-freaking-believable.
@sundogplanets escalate it through the proper channels so it ends up getting noted by the FAA and handled by courts with jurisdiction - instead of megacorps simply covering it up as "cost of doing business"?
@count @sundogplanets And to imagine that the main reason Starlink exists and earns money is that the obvious and superior solution, wiring the American countryside with optic fibre, is politically impossible because of the way American institutional-capture capitalism functions - or rather, fails to function...
@martinvermeer @sundogplanets well, it's what you get when you don't go for democracy but plutocracy.

@martinvermeer @sundogplanets all I can recommend is to vote better, and break up the two-party system by providing notably better alternatives to rich people collecting money.

might start with more independent media.

@sundogplanets
They have a point.

Back when MIR came down people over here were told to contact the police if they found anything that looked like space junk. An eldely couple did, and the police then contacted the military and told them a piece had been found. The military did not have any reason to distrust the police, so they drove a couple of hours with several trucks of equipment for dealing with possibly toxic fuel etc.

Turned out that what looked like space junk to an elderly couple looked like parts of an old Xerox machine to the military.

If the police had sent someone out to take a look before escalating, they would probably have been able to tell that it wasn't space junk, and maybe a hundred man-hours wouldn't have been wasted.

I suppose the idea here is the same: The RCMP is not going to handle it, they are supposed to take a look, tell the finder not to touch it, and contact the right people IF it looks like space junk.