I am talking o a reporter about this in a couple hours: https://regina.ctvnews.ca/from-outer-space-sask-farmers-baffled-after-discovering-strange-wreckage-in-field-1.6880353

This is about an hour away from my farm, so this'll be a fun conversation, and yet another great opportunity to tell a lot of people about what a huge problem we have with unregulated commercialization of orbit. (Also I just redid my slides for my public talk next week, this is going in!)

From outer space? Sask. farmers baffled after discovering strange wreckage in field

A family of fifth generation farmers from Ituna, Sask. are trying to find answers after discovering several strange objects lying on their land.

Regina

Interview done. I emailed Jonathan McDowell @planet4589 to ask if he had info on a possible reentry, and he immediately found it, and even had the ground track already calculated! Thank you for this meticulous tracking, Jonathan! (Because the satellite companies sure as shit aren't sharing this info!)

It was a Dragon Trunk from the Axios 3 mission, reentered on Feb 26. The reporter is going to send me contact info for the farmer who found it, so at least I can tell him what it is.

I'm now going to email everyone I know who works at CSA.

I'm *super* curious what is going to happen with this (probably nothing).

But if I can get SpaceX in trouble for dropping garbage on Canada from orbit, then I will use every power I have to make that happen!

I called the farmer who found the pieces! He is super mad that SpaceX is saying that this is safe, when clearly very large pieces are making it to the ground (and this kind of thing is TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE according to every launch and reentry regulating body. Wild.)

He said I could come take a look at the pieces after he's done seeding in a few days (because, Saskatchewan). He also really liked the idea of sending a bill to SpaceX for littering on his property. This could be a lot of fun!

HAHAHA they added my interview in to the redone version of the new story: https://regina.ctvnews.ca/from-outer-space-sask-farmers-baffled-after-discovering-strange-wreckage-in-field-1.6880353

And apparently it made national news(?!), because someone I'm on a committee with in Ontario said she saw me. I think it's time to go to bed (and hope for no more reentries...)

From outer space? Sask. farmers baffled after discovering strange wreckage in field

A family of fifth generation farmers from Ituna, Sask. are trying to find answers after discovering several strange objects lying on their land.

Regina

I just got an email back from one of the CSA people I contacted yesterday, and they just sent me SpaceX's media inquiry email. Given than literally every article that talks about SpaceX has "SpaceX did not respond to a request for comment" in it, this is...less than helpful πŸ™„

Edit to add: I just noticed it says "UNCLASSIFIED" in all caps at the top of the email, which is...hilarious? Man this situation just keeps getting weirder. I hope some journalists pick up on this.

Ok the latest twist in this saga: a different person at CSA emailed me and asked if I had the farmer's contact info, because they want to buy samples of it?!! This is getting more hilarious with every email

Oh my gosh it just keeps coming. So, I reached out to a colleague who I trust and respect on space law issues, asking them what actually the law says about space junk on someone's farm in another country. And I fully expected to hear something like "oh yes, the Outer Space Treaty says this and this" with clear directions.

Instead, they asked for the farmer's contact info so THEY COULD TRY TO BUY THE SPACE JUNK

That's the hardest I've laughed in a really long time. Wow.

Well, I again didn't get a big giant thing done that I've been procrastinating on for months because it sucks. But I did learn a hell of a lot about space law and I have a feeling I will have zillions of news interview in the next few days, which is great! I hope this gets lots of people talking about unregulated commercialization of orbit!

Quitting work stuff for the day. Time for goats, auroras, and wondering if my trip to Toronto will actually happen or if space weather will cancel it...

ok jumping back into this thread because hahahaha I can't believe everything that's happening.

I found out during a live radio interview this morning that someone claiming to be from SpaceX did indeed call the farmer, and ask to get the space junk back from him. But it sounds like whoever contacted him has absolutely no idea how rural Saskatchewan works. There is no FedEx. There are no addresses. This is going to be harder to recover than they thought.

I talked to a couple of space law experts to find out what to even advise the farmer on this. I had sort of thought that since it's in another country and it fell on private property, it belongs to the property owner.

But it is much more complicated than that, because of the Outer Space Treaty.

What *should* have happened is Global Affairs Canada should have contacted the US State Department, who should have contacted SpaceX.

But I think what actually happened was someone somewhere else in the Canadian gov't saw a news interview and told SpaceX.

The space law experts I talked to agreed that since SpaceX has now asked for it (assuming it *is* SpaceX), the farmer has to surrender it. BUT he should ask for compensation.

If there had been damage, the US gov't would have had to compensate the Canadian gov't, but because it's a private company, and no damage happened, compensation is voluntary

I chatted with the farmer again, and he's doing everything right! He asked for proof that the person was from SpaceX. He asked them to donate to the local skating rink. He's being careful at every step. He's doing a great job of dealing with a totally bizarre situation that very few people in the world have ever had to deal with.

I'll be heading up to visit him and see the junk over the weekend once I'm back in Sask, he seemed pretty confident that he'd still be in possession of it.

I have so many interview requests that I'm actually starting to lose track of them at this point...

But I'm really glad there is so much interest. This is terrifying stuff: SpaceX and other companies are dumping stuff on the ground that could very easily kill people. Countries need to enforce the rules that already exist, and the regulations NEED to be updated to take into account how terrifyingly many re-entries are happening now.

Augh I have an interview written on my calendar happening soon but I can't find it anywhere in my email.... oh noooooo I need a better system.
I have now done 5 interviews about Saskatchewan space junk from a random empty classroom at University of Toronto.
I'm going to CBC studios in Toronto tomorrow morning for an interview and coffee with a science journalist that I'm totally going to fangirl about! This is exciting (but it means I have to shift 2 other interviews I had already scheduled...haha this is so hilarious)
Nicole Mortillaro gave me a hug after the interview! ❀️ ❀️ ❀️
...and let me just say that it is fucking surreal to get texts from my partner about baby goats while I'm trying not to completely freak out walking through downtown Toronto after a CBC interview.
I'll write much more about this later, but... this happened:

So...this saga is ongoing, but here's the latest. I met the farmer on Saturday. He is incredibly nice, and his memory and deductive reasoning powers are impressive! It was really fun to chat and learn from him all the information he pieced together on his own, just from studying the piece of space junk. Farmers = engineers!

He also showed me the official lawyer-y-but-polite email he got from SpaceX. They said they will come pick up the piece from him, and they will compensate him. Good!

Legally, he's supposed to turn over the space junk to the owners, and he doesn't want to fight SpaceX, especially if they are being polite and provide a healthy donation to the Ituna skating rink as he requested.

But it's totally unclear if Canada has any laws on the books that could be actually used to compel a Canadian citizen to hand over a piece of space junk to a company in another country. So, from a space law standpoint, it would be a lot more "fun" if he refused. What would happen?

After meeting him, I drove around the area - if that big a piece (it's 100 pounds and 4 feet by 6 feet) made it to the ground intact, then smaller pieces definitely did too. We didn't find anything, of course. It's a HUGE area to search.

But I got a piece of paper and wrote "Did you find space junk? Call me!" with my name and number and left it on the small town co-op bulletin board, and I talked to the small town newspaper journalist who first wrote about it.

So the saga will continue...

The only time I go to my campus office in the summer is for media interviews about space junk, apparently?

(Also, today I learned CTV journalists do it all themselves! This impressive journalist set up the camera shots and did all the filming while also interviewing me. Wow.)

I learned that SpaceX is only going to pay the farmer $5,000 for the space junk that could have killed him. I'm glad they're paying, but that's piddly for a megacorporation owned by an awful billionaire that dumped hazardous garbage on his property.

He said he passed along SpaceX's contact info to others nearby who he thinks may have also found pieces of junk (he hinted that someone nearby may possibly have found an even bigger piece than his).

And I saw a media statement from the Canadian Space Agency that said people who find space junk shouldn't contact them, they should contact local emergency services. Which is... really dumb? What is an RCMP officer stationed in small-town Saskatchewan going to do with space junk?! I'm super not impressed.

The saga continues...

Got 2 interview requests within 3 minutes. People are still interested! Excellent.
(How many TV news interviews can I be on wearing the same sweater?)

Just to keep this crazy thread going: https://m.ai6yr.org/@firefly/112497343686542787

So, this is a new piece of SpaceX junk (from the same type of "fully demisable" Crew Dragon trunk as the piece in Saskatchewan), that fell on North Carolina, USA. Maybe the American gov't will pay more attention now? (Maybe the Canadian gov't too, who knows)

Why does SpaceX think it's ok to experiment with dropping giant pieces of space junk on us?!

Robin (@firefly@m.ai6yr.org)

Another piece of Elon’s Space Trash, perhaps? https://wlos.com/news/local/haywood-county-man-finds-heavy-mysterious-object-possibly-outer-space-landed-remote-trail-canton-aerospace-expert-input-glamping-collective# Cc: @ai6yr

AI6YR's Mastodon

@sundogplanets

Why does SpaceX think it's ok to experiment with dropping giant pieces of space junk on us?!

My guessβ€”and it's just a guessβ€”is that SpaceX doesn't think of us at all.

@sundogplanets πŸ€” I wonder how long before space junk causes a forest fire? (I know this is unlikely)

@WTL @sundogplanets

These days the question is, how would you spot the space junk fire among all the other wildfires.

@jonhendry @sundogplanets Indeed. πŸ€” suppose you could overlay known re-entires over fire maps and see if the time lines up. πŸ€” Someone clever could probably automate that.
@WTL @sundogplanets Canada, for one, is big and full of drying-out woods, maybe it has happened already.

@WTL @sundogplanets By the time debris from spacecraft reaches the ground; it has cooled off from re-entry.

The risk from SpaceX's littering is meter-wide chunks of metal and carbon fiber coming down at terminal velocity.

@michael_w_busch @WTL @sundogplanets There was that chunk of metal that crashed through the roof of a house in Florida. It was not hot enough to start a fire, but did damage the house.

@EricFielding @WTL @sundogplanets At least the Crew Dragon trunk sections do not contain large tanks.

Let no one repeat what happened downrange from Xichang.

@michael_w_busch @EricFielding @sundogplanets πŸ€” No kidding. Or Kosmos 954 in the Northwest Territories in the late 70s.

@sundogplanets

Someone recently remarked that if you hung a bag of money off the edge of a cliff, the tech bros would still jump for it, on the assumption they'd pull enough cash to buy a parachute on their way down.

You don't want to know how many CTOs have told me, "We'll fix that if/when it becomes a problem." You really don't want to know.

@sundogplanets

I guess, to be fair, their only difference from the rest of us is what their carrot is made of…

@teledyn @sundogplanets They do that because people buy the crap they make with that method.
@sundogplanets
That's why I prefer radio interviews...
@sundogplanets Let’s get a sweater made for you that says http://bit.ly/toomanysats on the front πŸ˜†
Take Action Menu β€” Kessler Rebellion

Kessler Rebellion
@sundogplanets all of them.
buy/make more sweaters looking the same!

@sundogplanets
Just wanted to tell you that this is the best thread ever! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Want to know what will get space junk precipitation regulated fast? When a piece takes out a rich person.

@Mikal @sundogplanets Wait! I just thought of a new kind of defenestration. Gets rid of a rich person, and destroys their industry in one fell swoop.

@obviousdwest @sundogplanets

Yeah, instead of launching billionaires into space, we need to launch some space into them.

@sundogplanets

It’s called personal branding. ;)

@sundogplanets all of them. Make it part of your brand.
@sundogplanets Thanks again for the updates. Just un-freaking-believable.
@sundogplanets escalate it through the proper channels so it ends up getting noted by the FAA and handled by courts with jurisdiction - instead of megacorps simply covering it up as "cost of doing business"?
@count @sundogplanets And to imagine that the main reason Starlink exists and earns money is that the obvious and superior solution, wiring the American countryside with optic fibre, is politically impossible because of the way American institutional-capture capitalism functions - or rather, fails to function...
@martinvermeer @sundogplanets well, it's what you get when you don't go for democracy but plutocracy.

@martinvermeer @sundogplanets all I can recommend is to vote better, and break up the two-party system by providing notably better alternatives to rich people collecting money.

might start with more independent media.

@sundogplanets
They have a point.

Back when MIR came down people over here were told to contact the police if they found anything that looked like space junk. An eldely couple did, and the police then contacted the military and told them a piece had been found. The military did not have any reason to distrust the police, so they drove a couple of hours with several trucks of equipment for dealing with possibly toxic fuel etc.

Turned out that what looked like space junk to an elderly couple looked like parts of an old Xerox machine to the military.

If the police had sent someone out to take a look before escalating, they would probably have been able to tell that it wasn't space junk, and maybe a hundred man-hours wouldn't have been wasted.

I suppose the idea here is the same: The RCMP is not going to handle it, they are supposed to take a look, tell the finder not to touch it, and contact the right people IF it looks like space junk.

@sundogplanets if a small piece lands in a field and doesn’t get noticed until it destroys a plow, is SpaceX liable for the plow and the delays and the potential loss of crops?
@ShadSterling A very interesting question... seeding is mostly done here, I wonder if anyone busted their seeders on space junk?
NASA (@nasa@social.beachcom.org)

NASA Study Provides New Look at Orbital Debris, Potential Solutions https://www.nasa.gov/organizations/otps/nasa-study-provides-new-look-at-orbital-debris-potential-solutions/ #NASA #OfficeOfTechnologyPolicyAndStrategyOTPS

Social::Beach
@sundogplanets Musk would gift you a Tesla cyber truck (take that as a gift or a threat, your choice).

@sundogplanets part of me wishes he'd been able to more discreetly auction it off to a MuskBro to alleviate them of some cash haha

Imagine the bidding war among them!

@sundogplanets Wow! Hard working person collected space junk! Bewdy, Professor!
@sundogplanets this is such a great story! Thanks for sharing and for bringing attention the issue πŸš€β˜„οΈ
@sundogplanets Sooooooo cool! Wow! Your like an air traffic controller for space debris! πŸ˜† I wonder if pilots were scrambled while it was coming through the atmosphere. πŸŽ‰β˜ΊοΈ
@sundogplanets Crikey the space junk is much bigger than I realised
@sundogplanets@mastodon.sociaI Oh, wow...this part is much bigger than I thought!
@sundogplanets You may have mentioned it before, but what is the approximate mass of said junk? It looks like it could have done significant damage had it landed on a building, etc.

@sundogplanets

To quote Tom Lehrer:

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department, " says Wernher von Braun.

@sundogplanets

Crikey! That would have hit with a thump 😱

@sundogplanets

Wow. It was masssive and no mistake! If this kind of shit gets more frequent someone is going to die sooner or later.

@sundogplanets

what a great thread

not only because it's an awesome read

but because it's impactful, no pun intended

@sundogplanets So Space Karen just dgaf whether stuff like that falls on our heads. Nice guy.
@sundogplanets OMG that's huge!!! Dumbass SpaceX/Starlink is going to kill someone!
@sundogplanets space eggs - sometimes they hatch πŸ™ƒ

@sundogplanets not recognizing that person ... May I ask for context of those big knowing please?

Is that the piece that the farmers found?