Eric Growdeni'm so sick of car companies complaining about the slow sales of EVs when all they build are super-sized SUVs and cross-overs that cost well north of $50K. Volume is NEVER going to be there, as most are not able or willing to devote a year's salary to transportation. They have other expenses...
One might think perhaps they are self-sabotaging the market--they wouldn't do that. would they?
Kevin Karhan 
@growdene OFC they do...
#PersonalLightVehicles are perfectly possible, they are just comfortable with #sabotaging #Competition and leveraging #Lobbyism to literally outlaw #SmallCars similar to the nice ones that @tikibunnyimports offers...
Sadly this isn't #USA-exclusive (tho there the flood of #SuperUselessVehicles including the #Enshittification as well as #Fattening of #Cars got started) but the #EU does the same with making a lot of #bloat mandatory that enshures that any #PersonalLightVehicles can't be sold "legally" as a #Car but only "#LightVehicle" as per classifications L2e-L7e, introducing a lot of restrictions in terms of net- & MGW, speed and/or power output to the wheels.
https://github.com/KBtechnologies/PLV
#SuperUselessVehicle #SUV #PersonalLightVehicle #LightVehicles #LightTrucks #Trucks
Adrian@kkarhan @growdene @tikibunnyimports
You realize that a lot of this "bloat" makes the difference between needing a doctor, needing a hospital or just the grave digger?
Physics are not kind to fast small vehicles and neither are they towards humans inside.
Fast
Cheap
Safe
Choose two.
Motorcycles which can be considered a type of #PersonalLightVehicle have one of the highest fatality rates of all motorized transport. Going fast without safety very quickly leads to death in accidents that you would have survived in any car built the last 2 decades.
@AdrianVolt @growdene @tikibunnyimports I know, but also I acknowledge that the #SUV-cation leads to an increase in #lethality of #traffic in the #USA, and since sadety standards have only increased it's safe to assume the vehicle design leads to more lethal accidents...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo
These Stupid Trucks are Literally Killing Us
Save $20 on an annual subscription to Nebula: https://go.nebula.tv/notjustbikesEngineers, planners, politicians, and advocates all around the world are tryin...
Tiki Bunny Imports 🍹🐇🛻🏳️🌈@tikibunnyimports @kkarhan @growdene
Certainly, the bloat of today is ridicolous and needs to die, yet the fact remains that some crumble zone is necessary if you want a reasonable chance of survival at speeds above 30 mph / 50 kph.
Two things injure or kill you in a crash when sitting in a car:
Penetration of object into your body due to the vehicle giving in arround you
G-Forces
And to limit those, you need a lot of sacrifical material that can lessen the blow to survivable levels.
It is possible to build a shell that makes most penetration unlikely, but the sheer g-forces of that shell coming to an aprupt stop with you inside it are more than enough to kill you instantly.
Smart Car Crash Test #TBT- Fifth Gear
@AdrianVolt @tikibunnyimports @growdene I know...
But there are ways to achieve that...
@kkarhan @tikibunnyimports @growdene
Could you explain the ways that you think that it could be achieved? 🙂
@AdrianVolt @tikibunnyimports @growdene designing cars to be less of a battering ram and more sleek and lower in profile for example.
Classic sedan (i.e. Audi A4) and compact car (i.e. Opel Corsa) designs still exist and they ain't absurdly phat "light trucks" that rival WW2 tanks in their dimensions...
OFC ideally we'd just have #PublicTransport that works because even a 20yr old Diesel Bus guzzling 40l/100km in Stop & Go of a 200k city is better than having it's passengers at 10% occupancy rate (i.e. 10 people) each drive a car.
But since we can't have nice things it seems reasonable to push for #PersonalLightVehicles that ain't pure "Egoism on wheels"...
@AdrianVolt @tikibunnyimports @growdene personally I do suggest to look at "#CabinScooter" like designs that reduce the footprint even if those ain't legally cars as a compromise between the comfort and safety of a car and the space efficjency of motorcycles and bikes.
It won't do 0-60 on a dragstrip, but it'll 1-3 people from one place to another dry and cheaply...
https://github.com/KBtechnologies/PLV
@kkarhan @tikibunnyimports @growdene
The problem with #PersonalLightVehicle is, that if you want it to achieve speeds above 30 kmh - which you want, because otherwise, why not take something like the Podbike (legally a bike in Europe) instead?
But such higher speeds quickly make any crash a very lethal affair, because your PLV simple has no crumble zone to lessen the G-Forces and often not even a durable passengers cell, leading to fatal penetration in even "mild" crashes at higher inner cities speeds.
If you want to go above 30 kmh - you need some crash protection. Above 50 kmh, you need pretty much all the bells and whistles, as forces increase rapidly.
So personally I think, that if one wants to look into Light Vehicles, that they should be e-bike based:
- Cycle ways make the poor crash safety far less of a concern. The less likely it is, that I get rammed by a 2 ton SUV, there more lenient i can be in this regard
- Because it is a mostly pedal powered 🚲, you also 👇
@kkarhan @tikibunnyimports @growdene
save the most amount of money, as neither tax nor insurance is required. It also has low operating and maintainance costs, because its power output and speed is low.
Yet, in inner cities, an e-bike is just as fast as an full size car (and a #PersonalLightVehicle ), but much cheaper, yet has comparable levels of independence (which is really important if you want to convert people from cars).
Because E-Bikes mostly top out at 25 kmh, they also pose far less of a threat to other people.
On a final note: No matter if enclosed e-bike or Personal Light Vehicle... please use 4 wheels..... 3 wheels are a very bad idea so if you decide that 2 is not enough, please go straight to 4 wheels.
4 Wheels offer the best stability in all driving condititions, making bikes more suitable for harsh weather and ice and snow. They also usually increase crash protection as some form of axle is required which then automatically serves as a certain buffer in the event of a crash.
@AdrianVolt @tikibunnyimports @growdene OFC in urban areas, a #bike-based solution ( Vmax ≤ 20km/h @ Pmax ≤ 250W is the obvious option, and those should be mainstreamed too.
Whereas with the #PersonalLightVehicle I try to propose a solution that is also practical for areas that won't get served with #PublicTransport anytime soon.
By basically working around the issues of #motorcycles and #scooters...
And they have many issues as you rightfully point out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2ou5gt_94
And downsizing not legally "cars" to more human scales is kinda necessary as alternative to the absurdity of "#SuperUselessVehicles"...
Feet Forward Motorcycles are Technically Better
@AdrianVolt @tikibunnyimports @growdene
OFC it's design takes queues from the #C5 which is basically a #Podbike - #Cabriolet, but the aim to get something that combines the advantage of a car (all weather comfort & seatbelts) with that of a 50cm³ scooter (fuel- & space efficiency, cheap to own, maintain due to having insurance plates)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5N937V8ZOw
Even if it means it'll legally top out at 45km/h & 4kW on the wheels but that's sufficient for most distances...
Similarly, there is a (patended!) small car conversion known as "#Ellenator" which basically downgrades a compact #car to a "legally 3-wheel enclosed motorcycle" capped at 15kW & 90km/h and that is "highway legal" (in Germany)...
https://github.com/KBtechnologies/PLV?tab=readme-ov-file#acknowledgements
Sinclair C5 infomercial 1985 - 40th anniversary 2025 #C5is40
@AdrianVolt @tikibunnyimports @growdene
And if you want to ask "But what is there one can buy today?"
Well, #Aixam and even #Opel have some options released...
@kkarhan @tikibunnyimports @growdene
Interesting even if it is pretty obvious why it failed to attract enough buyers, especially before it was marketed as a "toy".
I consider the 45 kmh speed limit honestly influenced by car industry lobbying. The goal being to make it as unattractive as possible to drive this because at 45 kmh, even inside cities (main road have 50 kmh) speed limit, you will have a lot of drivers being annoyed at you and almost kissing you with their front bumper which doesnt (and isnt) feel very safe.
Still, hitting an obstacle at 45 kmh (or 50) is going to make you very sorry and is quite capable of being fatal with a bit of bad luck in something like this.
The #Ellenator is an interesting concept as you keep most of the safety benefits of a regular car, but that also makes it a pretty expensive hobby, as you basically have to buy a 4 wheeled car first and then partially rebuild it which makes mostly sense for legal reasons (allowing teenagers to drive) and not practical reasons
@kkarhan @tikibunnyimports @growdene
Very interesting video, thank you. Being enclosed has many benefits as proven again by this video.
The problem is still that kinetic energy quadruples with every doubling of speed:
50 kmh = 4 times the energy = crash severity of 25 kmh
100 kmh = 4 times the crash severity of 50 kmh = 16 times as severe as 25 kmh.
Physics cannot be negiotiated with. At speeds above 30 kmh, kinetic energy quickly reaches a level where hitting anything unforgiving like a wall or even worse a steel lamp post without major crumble zone and safety cell quickly becomes fatal.
To be significantly faster than an electic bike, you want to be about as fast as a car outside of villages and cities. But any crash at those speeds is going to be almost certainly fatal.
It is a bit like, if all car drivers would switch to motorcycles... safer motorcycles in this case, but the reality is, road fatalities would go up dramatically (although primarly for the driving people in this case)
As such👇
@kkarhan @tikibunnyimports @growdene
I dont think it is the right way into the future even for those area where #PublicTransport is of poor quality/doesnt exist at all.
Imho it is just physics that make this otherwise great idea not so great.
For a reasonable driving risk, those very small and light vehicles need to stay quite slow. But if they are that slow, you might as well use an enclosed (weather protected) E-Bike with maybe #PersonalLightVehicle only being suitable for old people because you dont need to pedal in those.
While fast and even very fast Personal Light Vehicles are possible, the reality is, that they are very likely almost as dangerous as riding a motorcycle which has one of the highest risk of injury and death of any motorized vehicle.
Physics are not kind to small, light and fast things with vulnerable humans inside.