Michael Martinez Dec 29, 2023

I don't see enough people asking why all these people who are outraged by Israel's bombing in #Gaza don't express similar anger toward #Russia over its indiscriminate bombing and shelling of Ukrainian civilians.

I don't agree with Netanyahu's policies or strategies. I don't support the indiscriminate killing of civilians, even in a zone like Gaza where #Hamas has built hundreds of tunnels under homes, schools, and hospitals and intentionally uses the civilian population as human shields to maximize casualties.

Nonetheless, if you're going to be outraged over civilian deaths, I think you should express similar outrage over the intentional deaths in Ukraine (and we might as well mention the intentional deaths of civilians occurring throughout Africa, where Al Qaeda/ISIS-linked militant groups continue to attack villages and small cities).

Show threadlocalzukDec 29, 2023

@michael_martinez a lot of those people are outraged about Russia. But there has been less need for us to get our countries to do something about it because they have been doing stuff already. Sanctions, funding, supplies of military equipment to Ukraine, strengthening of NATO, sending of aid, and much more have been happening.

But for Gaza? What exactly is the West doing? Our leaders are supporting Israel in its campaign instead.

Hence, the outrage and protest.

Show threadMichael Martinez 

@localzuk "But for Gaza? What exactly is the West doing? Our leaders are supporting Israel in its campaign instead."

And yet most of the outrage I see is completely silent on #Hamas, which does not represent the Palestinians (certainly not the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who live in Israel and who support the war against Hamas).

Hamas is the greater problem here. They could end the war in a day by surrendering and releasing the hostages. Instead, they have committed to further attacks against Israel in the future (and they continue to fire rockets toward Israel).

All the anti-Israel outrage is useless because it only does Hamas' bidding (and as others have pointed out, indirectly the bidding of Iran, China, and Russia).

So we need to continue pointing out the hypocrisy of the anti-Israel protests. Until everyone condemns Hamas, most people are supporting #terrorism and #genocide, and I find that unacceptable.

Dec 29, 2023 at 9:20pmWeb
Show threadlocalzukDec 29, 2023

@michael_martinez Hamas are a major issue, absolutely, but I challenge you on them being a bigger problem. They haven't killed more than 20,000 civilians and injured 100,000 more.

But the issue is that Hamas are a terror group who won't surrender because they think they have their God on their side (they're basically ISIS with a slightly different banner).

Bombing the hell out of civilian areas is not going to get rid of them. It'll just make more of them.

Show threadlocalzukDec 29, 2023

@michael_martinez You are basically saying Israel gets a free hand in Gaza because of Hamas, and that's just not the case. Israel must follow international law. Which, they demonstrably and visibly aren't.

Everyone sane has called for Hamas to stop. But Hamas aren't going to listen, are they? But our governments? They will listen to the protests of their people.

Show threadMichael Martinez Dec 29, 2023

@localzuk "You are basically saying Israel gets a free hand in Gaza because of Hamas"

No, I am saying that refusing to condemn #Hamas is wrong because this war happened because of Hamas' October 7 attack - and they have promised more.

Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that Hamas is perpetuating the suffering in #Gaza really doesn't understand the #Palestinian situation.

Gazans regardless of how they feel about Israel are Hamas' prisoners - and Hamas kills Palestinians who dare speak out about their abuses.

If you don't condemn Hamas then you support them - which means you support their continuing the war, you support their future attacks against Israel, you support their dedication to #genocide

There is no middle ground. There is no moral higher ground where you can condemn Israel and say nothing about Hamas.

Show threadAviDec 30, 2023
@localzuk @michael_martinez You see the problem there for Israelis, though? You KNOW Hamas won’t listen. You want Israel to stop. But are you offering them ANY serious way out? Any way to be safe? No, Hamas did not kill 20,000. But that is not for lack of trying. Israelis are under constant missile attacks. The fact that they have bomb shelters and defense systems keeps them alive. But that’s no way to live, either. The protests offer not even a sliver of constructive way out.
Show threadMichael Martinez Dec 29, 2023

@localzuk " Hamas are a major issue, absolutely, but I challenge you on them being a bigger problem. "

Show us where #Israel was planning to invade and bomb #Gaza on October 6. That would prove that Israel is the greater problem. Nothing else will.

Show threadlocalzukDec 29, 2023

@michael_martinez actions matter. Outcomes matter. The deaths of tens of thousands, and injuries of hundred thousand more are bigger issue.

The only way not to think so is if you are racist, in my view. If you think Palestinians are less important than Israelis.

And you keep circling to those who don't denounce Hamas. I'm going out on a limb here, but they seem to be very few and far between. Everyone here I've seen who is protesting Israel has also denounced Hamas.

Show threadMichael Martinez Dec 29, 2023

@localzuk " actions matter. Outcomes matter."

#Hamas took action on October 7.

The outcome of Hamas' October 7 action is the war in #Gaza.

Hamas and only Hamas is responsible for the death and destruction in Gaza. No one else, regardless of how despicable and misguided Netanyahu's policies and strategies may be.

"The deaths of tens of thousands, and injuries of hundred thousand more are bigger issue."

And until you and others like you stop ignoring the problem and point your fingers at Hamas and Iran, the problem will only get worse.

Even if you could stop Israel today, you would only set the stage for a greater war with even more deaths and destruction in the future.

Your blaming the victims only proves that Hamas has easily manipulated you into doing what they want - setting the stage for the next war, which will be worse than this one.

If you really care about Palestinians, you should be condemning Hamas with all your heart and passion. Only Hamas can stop this - or their destruction.

Show threadlocalzukDec 29, 2023

@michael_martinez read back what I said, as you appear to be wilfull in your ignoring what I said.

Hamas are akin to ISIS. No amount of people protesting will change their views. You can't change the view of religious extremists by protest.

Protest against Israel's actions killing civilians? That can actually work.

And your stating that all the deaths are Hamas' fault is historically ignorant and does exactly what you deny. It gives Israel a free hand to do whatever it wants.

Show threadMarshaDec 29, 2023
@michael_martinez @localzuk Well, Russia isn't a Jewish state and Hamas isn't Jewish so...
Show threadRamesh #NotGoingBackDec 30, 2023

⬆️ @michael_martinez @localzuk

#Iran is the #HeadOfTheSnake that #China & #Russia are pulling alternately from opposite ends to churn the #MiddleEast conflict for their own #geopolitical ends.

#Hamas, a tentacle of Iran's #AxisOfResistance, is a clear beneficiary of #Russian & #Chinese propaganda that shields it while blaming #Israel even though Hamas launched attacks & still holds hostages.

When all they want is a #permanentStateOfWar, #condemnationIsNotEnough.

#DeposeHamas from #Gaza 😡