Mastodawn

Erik Kaareng-Sunde Nov 20, 2023

Meredith Whittaker

Really proud of Signal, of this piece, and so happy to help lead an organization willing to be honest about what others hide: the incredible cost of developing consumer tech, and why it’s so hard (but rewarding!) to build tech that doesn’t rely on monetizing surveillance.

https://signal.org/blog/signal-is-expensive/

Privacy is Priceless, but Signal is Expensive

Signal is the world’s most widely used truly private messaging app, and our cryptographic technologies provide extra layers of privacy beyond the Signal app itself. Since launching in 2013, the Signal Protocol—our end-to-end encryption technology—has become the de facto standard for private commu...

Signal Messenger

Derick Rethans Nov 19, 2023

@Mer__edith It's a good read. It left me wondering though: How much does Signal cost an active user to you?

Meredith Whittaker Nov 19, 2023

@derickr this is not a hugely meaningful number, in fact. Because we have significant fixed costs, and because economies of scale mean expenses on top of these fixed costs don't scale linearly.

geography Nov 19, 2023

@Mer__edith personally, I’ve held off donating to Signal so far because it’s not clear to me what the whole MobileCoin thing was about, whether it contributed (and continues contributing) to Signal’s finances at all, and if not, in whose financial interest it was done in the first place.
I personally would be happy to donate once the relationships (financial and otherwise) between the projects have been clarified, and I’m likely not the only one!

Mark Eichin Nov 19, 2023

@geography
I was surprised to see no mention at all of mobilecoin, it seems unlikely that there are no expenses related to it (even if they're paid by mobilecoin itself.) (Great article, I appreciate the detail, it was just a surprising absence.)
@Mer__edith

Nikhil Nov 21, 2023

@geography @Mer__edith I mean we dropped the ball on status/stories feature and focused on this cryptocurrency thing. That was the only feature majority of the people wanted during whatsapp privacy policy debacle.

Most of my ordinary friend circle have had joined Signal which was unprecedented. Left for status feature.

Also, huge discussion on forums for stories feature while crypto thing squeezed in through without any notice IIRC.

Guillaume Rossolini Nov 19, 2023

Registration Fees: $6 million dollars per year.
cover the delivery of verification codes during the sign-up process to help verify phone numbers and prevent spam accounts

I’m not sure everyone is happy about that registration process, and here it appears be over 10% of the annual operating costs

Are there plans to replace it while keeping spam accounts off?

Meredith Whittaker Nov 19, 2023

@GuillaumeRossolini If you have a new proposal for how to accomplish that without drastically harming Signal's utility we'd love to see it. They're able to charge this much in large part because no one has yet to present such a proposal.

Guillaume Rossolini Nov 19, 2023

@Mer__edith I didn’t mean to sound so harsh, I know you’d have done it if it were feasible. This was my curiosity talking.

peter_haas Nov 19, 2023

@Mer__edith I don't quite have 50 million rattling around under the couch cushions but if you figured out a freemium fee for service I'd pay for it as I'm sure would many others. Donation only services are an odd psychology because suddenly I am weighing signal donations vs feeding starving kids or toilets in Haiti.

Artificial Stupidity Nov 19, 2023

I’m with @peter_haas on this issue, would love to have something like $1 monthly for “premium”, just give us something like fancy gloving border around avatar for other people to see or some premium sticker only for premium users, I would gladly subscribe and keep it for the rest of my Signal usage

Ever Aftar Nov 19, 2023

@AncientGood @peter_haas you two are good, no worries. I'm donating $10 monthly. So you're covered.

Chirael (Anthony)

@Mer__edith I just donated about ten minutes ago before seeing this; happy to support them

computerfairies

@Mer__edith What a great blog post! I’ve been donating to Signal for over a year now and have pushed everyone I know to do the same. Sometimes I think the conversation about donating to Signal gets lost in the weeds, with griping about unpopular feature or the like, but in all seriousness there is no app that could replace Signal and be as popular. I’m getting Signal badges for everyone I know this holiday season.

Clayton Nov 19, 2023

@Mer__edith Don't support walled gardens.

Michael Nov 19, 2023

@Mer__edith We need more business leaders with morals, like you. I’ll boost Signal any day of the week.

Adam John Nov 19, 2023

@Mer__edith Interesting what #Signal been able to accomplish. Open Source is in need of leadership and modeling like this - the path to maturity in a market (like consumer tech) is paved with business like this. I don't believe an organization I love and help with is ready yet, in time it should easily unite and champion Open Source. Feel free to contact me about supporting the "Support Open Source for Scouting" initiative where we're changing the conversation about our future, together.

Adam John Nov 19, 2023

@Mer__edith also, your major market is consumer tech. But "big tech" contenders stand or will stand in one or more major markets as they eat bigger and bigger kids lunches.

Danny 👾Nov 20, 2023

@Mer__edith Leading the charge against monetized surveillance is like being a superhero in the tech world – tough but truly rewarding.

Danny 👾Nov 20, 2023

@Mer__edith btw Had no idea it costs this much to operate.

@Mer__edith I think that @signalapp could've avoided most of these costs if they weren't a #centralized, #SingleVendor & #SingleProvider solution but instead aimed at #decentralization.

But that would not work for a #metadata-driven #Honeypot that is subject to #CloudAct and aims to lure #TechIlliterates into a false sense of #Security...