Mastodawn

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 Sep 5, 2023

#Hubzilla #^https://hubzilla.org and #Streams #^https://codeberg.org/streams/streams share the same code root but are two separate #Fediverse projects started by @Mike Macgirvin, who started 2010 also Friendica.
Mike nowadays just develops for Streams.

Both projects can handel user groups, have a fine adjustable system for privacy, access control, and content ownership, offer as many channels as you like to have under one account and offer the unique function for a "nomadic identity".

The DEV Team which keeps developing Hubzilla likes to consider Streams as important as "Sid" (#^https://www.debian.org/releases/sid/) for debian.

Besides other improvements the Hubzilla Dev team is porting time by time the mayor developments made in Streams (as possible) to Hubzilla and is keeping HZ up to date with AP and working with other networks like #Diaspora and more

Streams uses the ZOT12 / NOMAD protocol and is at the same time 100% #ActivityPub

Hubzilla uses the ZOT6 protocol + other Network protocols by addons + all kinds of functions like a Web CMS can have: #Blogs, #Webpages, #WIKIS, #CalDAV, #CardDAV and so on

Streams is focused "just" on federated content and is pushing new functions around that also into AP. So Mike is with Streams actually involved in the ongoing development of ActivityPub and truly the avant-garde here. Because Streams is focused on "fewer" functions - Streams may be more easy to get started with the Fediverse - Streams just offers the right tools here for you.

Hubzilla has also functions for "old school" Web publishing, for content which does NOT federate and offers also all the tools for the IndieWeb #^https://indieweb.org/ . So for communities and persons which/how like to have all kinds of Web publishing functions and which/who are not just interested and dependent on having communication with the AP Network - Hubzille is THE ultimate choice.

Please check out for your self.

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 - [email protected]

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Bill Statler Sep 6, 2023

I don't think I agree that UI/UX is driving people away from Hubzilla/(streams). Yes, it could be improved.

But have you experienced Facebook recently? It's horrible. For everyday use, I find (streams) to be much easier and more enjoyable. And yet Facebook drives away only a small fraction of its users. Well, we know how they manage that trick: by being huge.

Do we have any reports from people who tried Hubzilla or (streams), and then left? Where did they go? What did they not like?

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𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 Sep 6, 2023

@Bill Statler
Do we have any reports from people who tried Hubzilla or (streams), and then left? Where did they go? What did they not like?

a lot of reports - yes - even if there are not written down... i have contact to quid a few newbees and they leave becasue they don't see a need for the privacy concept, they don't even get it... and they don't like the surface ... some also don't like the community - to dogmatic, they say...

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Jupiter Rowland Sep 6, 2023

@𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 Well, first they had a problem with #Mastodon not having the exact same UX as X. Then they had one with #Hubzilla not having the exact same UX as Mastodon.

Also, sure, today's #Fediverse is nothing like the old #FederatedSocialWeb.

10 years ago, the Federated Social Web was for geeks plus left-wing activists. #Friendica was the centre of the world. We didn't know whether we should pity or laugh at #Diaspora. And everyone was on desktop #Linux, and #Apple was evil incarnate.

Today, the Fediverse is for just about everyone. Mastodon is not only the centre of the world to the point that many spend up to half a year believing it is the Fediverse proper. People are pining for #Bluesky invites. And everyone's on an #iPhone and gushing over the #VisionPro.

Netzgemeinde/Hubzilla

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𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 Sep 7, 2023

@Jupiter Rowland Thanks

So you are saying all the talk and efforts about UX/UI brings us not closer to the essential points and is actually distracting us...

UX/UI is a wrap up for raw functions - a surface - It can enable us to do things more easy - it can also nudge us to certain actions and also hide things way.

If UX/UI is keeping you from understanding and trying to do things by your self i would say there is something really wrong with the used UX/UI

I like Hubzilla so much because it actually enables us to do so many things...and we can also easy brake up the surface and tweak things... well not everybody can do this but the tools to try are implemented - and that is essential

Open Source project will never have the resources like the IT Industry has to invest in a really good UX/UI

In a world where iPhone are still an object of desire a project like streams can't be expected to find the crowd - but more free Web activists should us it instead of Masto.

just did some studies about the term #FederatedSocialWeb and will post it in a new thread

im.allmendenetz.de

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Jupiter Rowland Sep 7, 2023

@𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼
So you are saying all the talk and efforts about UX/UI brings us not closer to the essential points and is actually distracting us...
No, I'm saying that people come from #Mastodon straight to #Hubzilla in expectation of "Mastodon with #RichText and a 50,000-character limit". Just like they came from Twitter to Mastodon because they were promised "literally Twitter without Elon Musk".

Then they land flat on their faces. Hubzilla turns out to be nothing like Mastodon. It handles vastly differently. Nothing is where they'd expect it. No content warnings (because Hubzilla calls them summaries). No UI element for alt-text. It doesn't have an app. Mastodon apps don't work. And so forth. Hell, 95% of them even fail to connect to other Mastodon users because nobody tells them that they have to turn #Pubcrawl on first!

Verdict: Hubzilla sucks. And they're back to their cosy little Mastodon which was hard enough to get used to already. No ambitions to learn something wholly new yet again.

I still remember when #Friendica mimicked the UIs of Facebook and #Diaspora*. Maybe Hubzilla needs to adopt this again with UIs that mimic Facebook, Twitter, Bluesky, Threads and the most popular Mastodon Web interfaces. Not only in looks, but even in handling as far as that's possible.

just did some studies about the term #FederatedSocialWeb and will post it in a new thread
The #FederatedSocialWeb was:

Diaspora* for the clueless hipsters who had never heard of Friendica, and who were absolutely convinced that those four guys were the first to develop a decentralised social network
Friendica for the geeks, the cool kids and alternative left-wing activists who had to use something obscure so that the authorities wouldn't discover their posts too easily
the #RedMatrix for those few daredevils who a) knew about it, b) were willing to try it and c) actually had access to a Red Matrix instance

Netzgemeinde/Hubzilla

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𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

@Jupiter Rowland

and what role did play Status.net in your #FederatedSocialWeb ?