Can someone explain how it makes sense that an #Opel #eVivaro / #Citroen #eJumpy Crew Cab #EV van (3 second rate seats in the rear) is more expensive, even with fewer features, than the equivalent #Zafira minibus / people carrier with lots of bells and whistles?
Not sure if that’s the case elsewhere, but certainly it is in Finland. It feels like the van versions are 10K more expensive than they should be.
@Setok I can tell you why:
#Lithium-#Batteries are absurdly expensive by their sheer nature - despite the fact that they are peak #UnfairTrade - espechally in terms of #Cobalt.
They wpuld.be cheaper if they were #Methanol #FuelCells and even cheaper if the Economies of Scale would hit that similar.to #Gasoline and #Diesel...
@lotneuv @kkarhan what I suspect may have happened: when the gov introduced the 4K grant for vans, Stellantis bumped up the price accordingly, but of course the Crew Cab couldn't be cheaper than regular, so had to bump that too, making it very weirdly more expensive than the minibus.
Alternatively it could be because businesses have an easier time reclaiming VAT on a van, so Stellantis is taking profit there.
@Setok @lotneuv Either way #EVs will continue to be more expensive by virtue of needing more expensive parts and tech compared to equally-spec'd combustion engine driven vehicles.
Even if we'd not have the economies of Scale we'd still have the higher degrees of engineering and necessary parts.
After all, a two-stroke scooter will always be simpler to build than a pedelec, and prices reflect that.
@Setok @lotneuv Whereas #Businesses see vehicles as 'necessary "business expense"' and thus will invest accordingly.
@[email protected] @[email protected] So basically the same as when #Germany had the bs idea of subsidizing #Gasoline: The #Corporations just upped the prices by the same level... And yes, businesses will just writeoff vans and boxtrucks as business assets if they even buy them instead of leasing them as a complete package which accountants will find easier even if it's more expensive very quickly even without the added value of having services, roadside assistance and replacement vehicles included into the bills.
@Setok @lotneuv depends on the exact configuration, but even then the need for more and higher grade rare metals and rare earth minerals make it more expensive.
Because there isn't any fancy need for charging and discharging controllers on anything from a single-cylinder two-stroke to a supercharged V8 Big Block Diesel.
And the lack of #standardization and #ComponentSharing is driving up the prices as well as reduce the economies of scale, since every car has their own custom batteries!
@kkarhan @Setok Best EVs (Tesla, maybe BYD and NIO) have less chips and wires in them as ICE cars with same gear (more stuff done in SW instead of HW).
Tesla and BYD are the first manufacturers to even enter the "economies of scale" scale 😀 Meaning atleast a few hundred thousand items of any particular model manufactured. None of the european brands are there yet - not even VW. And certainly not Stellantis 😜
So basically the same as when #Germany had the bs idea of subsidizing #Gasoline: The #Corporations just upped the prices by the same level...
And yes, businesses will just writeoff vans and boxtrucks as business assets if they even buy them instead of leasing them as a complete package which accountants will find easier even if it's more expensive very quickly even without the added value of having services, roadside assistance and replacement vehicles included into the bills.
Kristoffer Lawson
Kevin Karhan 
Lotneuv