Tube TimeMar 17, 2023
welp, how'd i get into THIS situation? let's rewind...
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
*earlier* what i have here is a Sun SPARCstation 1+.
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
it's going to need a little work but WHAT is that blob of duct tape
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
looks like a coin cell mod.
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
on the back, we have the usual semi-cursed 13W3 video connector and the Sun keyboard connector. where am i going to find a Sun keyboard?
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
i just happen to have one, new in box! i bought this years ago at Weird Stuff Warehouse when they were still around. i have no idea why, but i'm glad i did.
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
i've also got some Sun mice. an M3 and an M4.
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
however, they have RJ11 connectors and the keyboard (which is where the mouse plugs in) just has a mini-DIN connector. uh oh.
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
which brings me back to here. does this mouse, despite the connector difference, use the same protocol?
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
looks like it is essentially the same protocol as the version of the mouse (type 4?) designed for the SPARCstation. the output is open collector, inverted async serial, 5 byte.
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
time to build an adapter. the connector is RJ11 (technically 6P4C) but it has these pins sticking out, presumably so you can't plug it into a phone jack.
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
ahh well, i'll just file some grooves.
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
adapter!
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
couldn't find a Sun 13W3 cable adapter so I'm doing this to get to VGA.
Show threadTube TimeMar 17, 2023
well it found the keyboard!
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
four months later  i made the Video Snake Oil board that can adapt 13W3 (any type!) to VGA. you just wire up the little pads to whatever your machine needs.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
i've also installed a ZuluSCSI. this neat little board is a lot cheaper than a SCSI2SD. i'm going to try and install Solaris using a CDROM ISO file. CD6_512.iso is placed on the SD card. it'll be ID 6, 512 bytes per sector.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
well, it tries to boot from the CDROM but suffers a BAD TRAP. not sure why, maybe i need to update the IDPROM contents.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
yeah i am guessing the machine type in the IDPROM is invalid so the installer runs the wrong code.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
wrote a little FORTH program to update the contents of the IDPROM, and it looks like it has a valid host id now.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
forgot to add that i needed to do a "set-defaults" and a "setenv diag-switch? false"
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
uh oh, RAM parity error. i'm hoping U676 isn't seated all the way and that it is an easy fix.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
that did the trick. the SIMM sockets were very stuck. welcome to S O L A R I S!
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
spoke too soon. another parity error, this time at U677. why there? because that's where i moved the module that was at U676. think i will just pull that bank of RAM for now.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023

it seems to run with 12MB RAM. no more parity errors this time. but now the installer hates my SCSI drive (a ZuluSCSI).

filesystem creation failed for / 🤔

Show threadTube TimeJul 16, 2023

i bet it is this issue. basically the ZuluSCSI returns values for disk geometry that somehow confuses the Solaris partition tool. one solution is to use a real SCSI hard drive and then dd it over to the ZuluSCSI once the install is completed.

https://github.com/ZuluSCSI/ZuluSCSI-firmware/discussions/122#discussioncomment-4418076

Has anyone used ZuluSCSI on a SPARCStation? · ZuluSCSI/ZuluSCSI-firmware · Discussion #122

Hiya, I've got my ZuluSCSI installed in a sparcstation 2 and while it's definitely working...something is amiss. I can boot from CD image and Solaris 2.7 sees the hard drive image but I've having s...

GitHub
Show threadXenotar
@tubetime Try NetBSD, it can give better diagnostic messages, I think
Jul 16, 2023 at 1:51amWeb
Ă—
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
well, it tries to boot from the CDROM but suffers a BAD TRAP. not sure why, maybe i need to update the IDPROM contents.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
yeah i am guessing the machine type in the IDPROM is invalid so the installer runs the wrong code.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
wrote a little FORTH program to update the contents of the IDPROM, and it looks like it has a valid host id now.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
forgot to add that i needed to do a "set-defaults" and a "setenv diag-switch? false"
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
uh oh, RAM parity error. i'm hoping U676 isn't seated all the way and that it is an easy fix.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
that did the trick. the SIMM sockets were very stuck. welcome to S O L A R I S!
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023
spoke too soon. another parity error, this time at U677. why there? because that's where i moved the module that was at U676. think i will just pull that bank of RAM for now.
Show threadTube TimeJul 15, 2023

it seems to run with 12MB RAM. no more parity errors this time. but now the installer hates my SCSI drive (a ZuluSCSI).

filesystem creation failed for / 🤔

Show threadTube TimeJul 16, 2023

i bet it is this issue. basically the ZuluSCSI returns values for disk geometry that somehow confuses the Solaris partition tool. one solution is to use a real SCSI hard drive and then dd it over to the ZuluSCSI once the install is completed.

https://github.com/ZuluSCSI/ZuluSCSI-firmware/discussions/122#discussioncomment-4418076

Has anyone used ZuluSCSI on a SPARCStation? · ZuluSCSI/ZuluSCSI-firmware · Discussion #122

Hiya, I've got my ZuluSCSI installed in a sparcstation 2 and while it's definitely working...something is amiss. I can boot from CD image and Solaris 2.7 sees the hard drive image but I've having s...

GitHub
Show threadTube TimeJul 17, 2023

zululog.txt has the smoking gun:

[996859ms] WARNING: Host used command 0x1A which is affected by drive geometry. Current settings are 63 sectors x 255 heads = 16065 but image size of 2097152 sectors is not divisible. This can cause error messages in diagnostics tools.

i think the solution here is to resize the disk image file so it is divisible by 63*255*512.

Show threadTube TimeJul 17, 2023
that wasn't the solution lol  there's no more zululog.txt error but the superblock isn't getting written correctly. 6D B6 DB 6D is the test pattern written by the format command. could be somehow corrupting it during the write?
Show threadTube TimeJul 29, 2023
well, I broke down and put in a spinning rust disk. the installer is much happier now and is copying files.
Show threadTube TimeJul 31, 2023
spinning rust refuses to boot when the SCSI ID is set to 0. I can set it to 1 and it will boot partway but the fstab is configured for 0 so it won't work.
Show threadTube TimeJul 31, 2023
I imaged the drive using the ZuluSCSI initiator mode, but even with the ZuluSCSI the firmware refuses to boot from SCSI ID0. weird.
Show threadTube TimeAug 1, 2023
yay it works now! i tried SCSI ID 1.
Show threadTube TimeAug 1, 2023
so i tried placing a drive image at SCSI ID 3 and *it boots as SD(0,0,0)vmunix* wtaf lol. seems like Sun cheated and swizzled some SCSI IDs around.
Show threadTube TimeAug 1, 2023
anyway. trying an older Solaris installer and it is really surprised at the date -- could it really be 10,405 days after 1995?
Show threadTube TimeAug 1, 2023
omfg they swizzled it 🤦‍♂️
Show threadTube TimeAug 1, 2023

SunOS 4.1.4 says it can't possibly be the year 2023: "WARNING: preposterous time in filesystem -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!"

sorry SunOS, there's nothing i can do to fix 2023.

Show threadzarbetAug 1, 2023
@tubetime I booted a NeXTstation in Sep 2022 and just had to check whether I tweeted this preposterous message or tooted it. Didn't know SunOS does it too!
Thank you for the swizzle table, I'm sure I'll lose it but it's useful to me anyway.
Show threadSun Microdevil Pte LtdAug 3, 2023

@zarbet @tubetime AFAICT the preposterous time message has been there since 4BSD (see clkinit at https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=4BSD/usr/src/sys/sys/machdep.c) and given both NeXTSTEP and SunOS are BSD-based it is understandable that they would carry the message...

Btw the message still survives even in modern descendants (e.g NetBSD has it here: https://github.com/NetBSD/src/blob/trunk/sys/kern/kern_todr.c#L197) 

Show threadGreg WhiteheadAug 1, 2023
@tubetime we live in preposterous times
Show threadJulia RezAug 1, 2023

@grwster @tubetime

Thank you for that earworm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RYxqPsKfEE

I, Ludicrous - Preposterous Tales - Ken McKenzie (Original Flexi Release (1987)

YouTube
Show threadBrian Danger HicksAug 1, 2023
@tubetime Wrong but also not wrong
Show threadspmatich vk3spm Aug 1, 2023
@tubetime I agree with the sun engineers. Why is something with a 20MHz CPU and 1gb of spinning rust (probs not the original, much more likely to be 500MB) even powered on in 2023?
Show threadchristian mockAug 1, 2023
@spmatich @tubetime props to the Sun engineers tho for building hardware that lasts 30 years.
Show threadChris Gerhard Aug 5, 2023
@spmatich @tubetime 4/60 cpu was the original sparcstaton 1. That had a 100mb drive with the infamous sticky head.
Show threadJohn BurnsJul 1, 2024

@spmatich @tubetime

Let me introduce you to the "Commodore Amiga" in Grand Rapids school system. 2015 Article.

I saw a location that took out original IBM PC's - in the '00s. Yes, still operating and finally being moved out as software finally updated.

https://www.woodtv.com/news/grand-rapids/1980s-computer-controls-grps-heat-and-ac/

1980s computer controls GRPS heat and AC

A 30-year-old computer that has run day and night for decades is what controls the heat and air conditioning at 19 GRPS buildings.

WOODTV.com
Show threadnickAug 1, 2023
@tubetime The best bit about this message is that I guarantee you there are still Sun4s in production somewhere. Preposterous!
Show threadZorin =^o.o^=Aug 1, 2023

@nickzoic @tubetime We ran ours a lot longer than sanity should have allowed.

Our last “production” Solaris box was retired in 2021.

"Production" is in quotes because it was used by ONE professor, who didn't want to let go. We finally convinced him he should migrate his stuff to Linux because we literally have no way to fix this machine if it dies and it'll be a lot easier while it's still running.

Thankfully he obliged.

I did a little obituary on the Other Site when it was shut: https://twitter.com/zorinlynx/status/1395094163029381122

Zorin =^o.o^= on Twitter

“This was the last active Sun Sparc machine in our department. We finally shut it down today. Requisquat in pace, Ultra 10. May you find glory in the afterlife.”

Twitter
Show threadyakkoj 🦊Aug 1, 2023

@nickzoic @tubetime there's probably a sun4c like this one doing something critical and hasn't been restarted since 1995.

When it fails, we'll know it. ;o)

Show threadZsoltAug 1, 2023
@tubetime yours was the best account on Twitter, and now it’s the best account on Mastodon. Entertaining, and educational. Thank you for existing.
Show threadbobAug 1, 2023
@tubetime I've been putting off replacing the nvram in both my ipx machines :(
Show threadHubert FiguièreAug 1, 2023
@tubetime they never thought it would run 30 years later...
Show threadTim MakariosAug 1, 2023

@tubetime
One day it'll be 2023.

1994: Bah! That's preposterous!

Reminds me of this comment in leapsecs.txt in libtai:

"Note for parsers: Negative leap seconds will probably never happen, but the year 10000 will happen. Please don't contribute to the Y10K problem."

https://cr.yp.to/libtai.html

Show threadmirabilosAug 1, 2023
@TMakarios @tubetime that didn’t age well, negative leap seconds I’m told are now likely :'(
Show threadAndreAug 1, 2023
@tubetime Does SunOS 4 still complain about a preposterous time after you've set the system clock to 2023?
Show threadAmy (she/her/hers)Aug 1, 2023
@tubetime world should've ended in 2012
Show threadnickAug 1, 2023

@tubetime yeah so external drives used to ship with all the little jumpers off (ID=0) and if you plugged that into your Sun4 it wouldn't boot and then you'd call the service department ... so they wanted to make the main disk some other ID but everyone assumes the boot volume is sd0 ... so some evil genius came up with this plan.

The *good* external drive enclosures had a little pushbutton wheel thingy on the back to change their ID :-) This just plugged onto the three sets of pins you'd put jumpers on if you had a cheaper enclosure

(edited for clarity)

Show threadjohn spurlingAug 1, 2023
@tubetime the network is the computer, and the computer is a time machine
Show threadFritz AdalisAug 1, 2023
@tubetime
Nice!
Show threadBrian Danger HicksJul 31, 2023
@tubetime the one part of the spinning rust drive you didn't want it to emulate
Show threadsamJul 31, 2023
@tubetime might not be helpful, as it’s a fairly different machine, but I recently watched this video of someone getting a SPARCclassic up and running off a bluescsi v1, and they seemed to have a good reason to use scsi id 3 https://youtu.be/SMz2y-wdbzs
SAVING a 30-year old Sun workstation! - ISP Series Episode 2

While we may have left on a cliffhanger in our first ISP episode, this might be our most extensive video to date. We get up close with the SPARCclassic, and ...

YouTube
Show threadEmelia/EmiJul 31, 2023
@samedwards @tubetime Annecdata: My IPX has the original spinning rust set to ID 3 with termination off, although I can't check anything else because I don't have a working console at the moment.
Show threadNorman WilsonJul 31, 2023
@tubetime I have a vague memory of some early Sun stuff usurping SCSI ID 0, but can't recall the details.
Show threadNorman WilsonJul 29, 2023
@tubetime Did spinning Rust make things Go?
Show threadNicolas Noble Jul 17, 2023
@tubetime this FF is suspiciously looking like high-Z.
Show thread🇺🇦 haxadecimalJul 17, 2023
@tubetime 6D B6 DB is a worst-case test pattern for MFM encoding, so the NAND flash chips in your SD card must not have enough timing margin for the channel code.
Show threadInsubstantial PageantJul 17, 2023
@tubetime
512?
Show threaddjb_rhJul 17, 2023
@tubetime This all reminds me of my days with @Migueldeicaza helping him port Linux (him the kernel, me the rest of Red Hat) to the SPARC. The hardware had some idiosyncrasies but we USUALLY found them to all have fairly good reasons. Usually. My favorite thing was getting Linux to install to one from tape. AFAIK I’m the only person to ever do that.
Show threadJoel MichaelJul 16, 2023
@tubetime damn, I wonder if it’s some kind of Mac-compatibility that’s breaking on SPARC?
Show threadXenotarJul 16, 2023
@tubetime Try NetBSD, it can give better diagnostic messages, I think
Show threadPoul-Henning KampJul 16, 2023

@tubetime

Many years ago I wrote a little tool called "scsi-ping" which gives you a working disktab entry for a SCSI disk.

It's still out there somewhere.

Show threadJeroen Ruigrok van der WervenJul 16, 2023

@bsdphk @tubetime From your FreeBSD homepage:

scsi-ping Has taken a life of its own, I don't administrate any Solaris hosts these days, so I can't help you figure out what to do about your disktab. The most recent version I know about is here: ftp://ftp.cdf.toronto.edu/pub/jdd/scsiping

Edit: since that led nowhere, here's a working URL: https://www.cs.toronto.edu/pub/jdd/scsiping/

Index of /pub/jdd/scsiping

Show threadChris Gerhard Jul 15, 2023
@tubetime you just need to port solaris 10 to it and then as long as the memory error is not in kernel memory the process would be killed and the location blacklisted.
Show threadDarrenJul 15, 2023

@tubetime I like how "WARNING" is all caps and "panic" is kept on the down-low with no caps.

I guess 'panic' has another meaning than what is coming to mind.

Show threadStephen Bannasch (316 ppm)Jul 15, 2023
@tubetime ahh!! Boosted because of #Forth! Haven’t thought about it for a long time. Used to use it a bunch a long time ago. Once had a function named “exist”, later wrote a loop: “do i exist” … Simple pleasures.
Show threadStephen Bannasch (316 ppm)Jul 15, 2023
@tubetime once wrote a simple Forth-like language I called “go” written in 68000 assembler that interactively compiled lines directly to 68000 machine code. Ran on an original Mac 128k ;-)
Show threadChris LJul 15, 2023
@stepheneb @tubetime yeah forth is so easy to bootstrap. I think I had a small forth-ish for 6502 based on reading about it in Byte. I was so happy when Apple and Sun bundled forth as boot loaders. Also tube time should do a Sun 4/260. That was my first Unix machine, got surplus and loaded it down with internet software in mid 90s. The lights flickered when it powered on.
Show threadStephen Bannasch (316 ppm)Jul 15, 2023
@jayalane @tubetime I remember writing applications with GraForth on the Apple ][ ;-)
Show threadChris LJul 15, 2023
@stepheneb @tubetime ahh GraForth! That concept hasn’t been active in my brain for decades, and all I can concretely remember is a feeling of happiness and a love of parabolas and hyperbolas.