Mastodawn

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@Mastodon

There were rumours regarding payments from Meta to various instances, which are difficult to confirm or deny due to the NDAs.

Could you set the record straight?

Is Mastodon gGmbH receiving any funds from Meta or anyone connected to Meta?

Will Mastodon gGmbH commit to never taking funds from Meta or anyone connected to Meta?

@feditips Can you stop using your huge platform to spread crazy misinformation? Like, nothing like this has ever been even close to substantiated, and these sorts of bull---- rumors are regularly scaring newer users who aren't versed in the latest fedi dramas enough to know the authors are making it up.

@ocdtrekkie

This isn't misinformation, this is a request for information.

Mastodon used to be emphatically anti-Facebook, now they're suddenly "this is no big deal".

It would be nice if they could confirm this isn't due to any kind of payment.

@feditips Okay, Tucker Carlson. Just asking questions, got it.

Like seriously please step back and look at your behavior in light of your popularity here amongst newcomers. Take your conspiracies elsewhere.

@ocdtrekkie @feditips asking if something is true or false only after it's been proven true or false seems somewhat redundant...

@bitflipped @feditips Eugen has already said it's false, see the link elsewhere in the thread.

@ocdtrekkie @feditips he's said he isn't aware of secret deals, it's not the same thing.

@bitflipped @feditips If there's no secret deals, and there are no non-secret deals... there are... no deals.

@ocdtrekkie @feditips ok good, we have established that there are no deals. Now I'd like an answer to the question that @feditips asked.

@bitflipped @feditips ...It's been answered already. The dude is running a company and writing the software and dealing with running like two servers under massive load. I imagine Eugen has better things to do than dance every time someone invents some conspiracy nonsense.

@ocdtrekkie @feditips companies tend to need to deal with PR issues on occasion...

https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/discussions/18759

@bitflipped @ocdtrekkie

He said "I'm not aware of any secret deals"... that is not the direct answer you're claiming.

His attitude to funding seems to be that it is fine to take money from whoever as long as there are no direct strings attached:

That is what I am trying to ask, whether he has taken money from Meta the way he currently takes money from casinos.

Dubious sponsors of the Mastodon project on joinmastodon.org · mastodon/mastodon · Discussion #18759

When visiting the joinmastodon.org project site, I noticed at least ten sposors that I would personally classify as very questionable. These would be at least: Row Two Number Two Row Two Number Six...

GitHub

@feditips @bitflipped Well is Meta on the sponsor list?

Nour Agha

@ocdtrekkie @feditips @bitflipped Even if we assume he's taken money from Meta, as long as there are no direct strings attached (which he apparently says), where is the problem? Meta contribute to tons of open source projects and organizations, including the Linux Foundation, Blender and many more. I hate Meta, but the narrowminded perspective of Meta = bad is wrong, because they give back and there's a lot of good work they have done and still do. Things aren't always black or white.

@feditips @ocdtrekkie agreed.

I think it's safe to say that we are all greatful for the Mastodon project, but putting the rumours to bed would help quell the unease that a lot of people are feeling right now.

@bitflipped @feditips He tried and now it's "not clear enough" because conspiracy theorists will always look for a way their wrong beliefs could still technically be true. This is an *embarrassing* thread for feditips to have propagated.

Doing a Tucker Carlson needs to be a bannable offense, imho.

https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/discussions/18759

@ocdtrekkie @bitflipped

I'm concerned in the same way many have been concerned about Mozilla's relationship to Google.

Eugen himself brought up this example in the thread I linked to, did you read it?

Dubious sponsors of the Mastodon project on joinmastodon.org · mastodon/mastodon · Discussion #18759

GitHub

@feditips @bitflipped And in that thread he... said anyone could donate to Patreon just like anyone else... and that conveys no authority, influence, or strings.

So unless the Patreon income has hockey-sticked way more than just "Mastodon is super popular this week", I'm not sure what you're on about, and even if they did donate, it wouldn't impact... anything?

@feditips @bitflipped But it's good to know you're "concerned": https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/concern_troll

concern troll - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

Wiktionary

Lonsfor Jul 6, 2023

@ocdtrekkie @feditips @bitflipped "you are not allowed to use the word 'concerned'"

actually deranged

@ocdtrekkie @bitflipped

If you receive money from an organisation, you will naturally tend not to want to criticise that organisation.

That's how political lobbying works. That's why companies donate vast sums to political parties, even without any direct deals or demands. Donors make parties dependent on them, so that the parties naturally tend to not tread on donors' toes.

Lee Fife Jul 6, 2023

@feditips @ocdtrekkie I just had dinner with John, John Mastodon, and he personally assured me that no payments have taken place. I was so pleased to hear this that I bought him dinner...

Seriously, with a large platform comes responsibility. Please be more careful. Do better.

https://fosstodon.org/@kev/110592625692688836

@ocdtrekkie @feditips

There’s literal evidence that #Meta invited stakeholders for an off the record meeting as per @kev

In light of that it’s not a reach to assume @Gargron was invited too, and to then subsequently ask for confirmation that no payment has been received and will be accepted

Kev Quirk (@kev@fosstodon.org)

Attached: 1 image Yeah, that's gonna be a hard pass from me thanks, Rachel. Zero interest in having a conversation with #Meta "off the record" or otherwise. Sharing this purely to be as transparent as possible with our members.

Fosstodon

@thattridentdude @feditips @kev @Gargron Invited to a meeting, absolutely! Meetings happen all the time. It's absolutely a stretch to start inventing wild conspiracy theories because people from two groups *talked to each other*.

@thattridentdude @feditips @kev And there are two key things here:

- Eugen has already said there are no secret deals he knows of, which would presumably include anything that happened at said meeting or anything involving Mastodon gGmbH.
- The fedipact crowd has spent the last couple weeks literally just *making stuff up* and then reporting it as "unconfirmed rumors".

@thattridentdude @feditips @kev We have gotten to truly toxic disinformation levels, and I truly believe we need to start cutting out parts of the fediverse who use "rumors" to create drama and build followings based on fiction, especially when that fiction causes panic and real harm.

We lack a Fact Check feature here, so here it is: This particular feditip escapade is bullpoop.

It’s neither a stretch nor wild imho, meetings have a purpose and it’s entirely plausible that the purpose of this meeting was to come to a financial agreement

Asking for clarification in the form of unequivocal statements that no payment has been made and none will be accepted is fair and trying to cast it as some weird conspiracy does nothing to further the truth

If drama is the disease then the statement is the cure

What decidedly doesn’t help is throwing oil onto the fire by acting like everyone with a concern is some weird tinfoil conspiracy crackpot in a bunker instead of actually engaging in good faith and trying to address their concerns

What also doesn’t help is making a half hearted attempt at brushing off concerns by saying “yeah XMPP might have suffered by an EEE strategy, but who cares only a bunch of nerds cared about that, lol”

And what certainly doesn’t help is rushing to unilaterally kill a discussion that questions the practices of accepting money from questionable sources https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/discussions/18759

Maybe you do not care about these concerns, and maybe it generally angers you that people voice these concerns because you genuinely see them as unfounded FUD in an attempt to tear the community apart

Dubious sponsors of the Mastodon project on joinmastodon.org · mastodon/mastodon · Discussion #18759

GitHub

But even so, it’s in your best interest to take these concerns seriously and engage with them on a good faith basis, because acting like it’s all just a crackpot conspiracy theory isn’t going to convince anyone and will only generate more “conspiracy theorists”

I personally had the attitude of “we’ll see what happens”, until I too starting to have questions after reading the blog post that feels rather tone deaf, which was exacerbated by the hastily closed GitHub discussion

Now I too am wondering if there’s a there there, especially considering how easy it is to nip these questions in the bud and how easy it is to acknowledge concerns

If that’s objectionable to you and makes me a conspiracy nut job, then by all means sign me up as the king of tinfoil head wearing conspiracy nut jobs

I’ll wear it like a badge of honor, just like I wear the badges of socialist and communist with honor, given to me by people here in the US just because I deign to suggest that everyone should be able to live a dignified life

@thattridentdude @feditips He has TOLD YOU there's no agreement. The statement was made. The disease is conspiracy theorists spreading misinformation.

@ocdtrekkie @feditips

He stated: “I am not aware of any secret deals with Meta”
That’s decidedly not the same as “we haven’t received funds from #Meta” and it’s even further away from “we won’t accept any funds”

But you know this already, since people have pointed this out to you numerous times
Your follow up to this has been in the vain of “he’s busy, doesn’t owe denial to every claim”

You’re right, its not owed, but simultaneously the people seeking it don’t owe assumption of non-payment

@thattridentdude @feditips Yeah, I'm just gonna save myself some time and throw a block now. You specifically say "plausible that the purpose of this meeting was to come to a financial agreement".

But "there is no agreement" isn't a good enough answer, because, you know, could be something else.

You're moving the goalposts because that's what concern trolls *do*.

Emelia 👸🏻Jul 6, 2023

@feditips @Mastodon if you read to the end of that post, there's a big bold section calling for donations to Mastodon. Do you really think if (your conspiracy theory which has no basis in reality) Meta had sent monies anywhere that Mastodon would have included a "please!we need money so we can hire more people" call?

This comment does nothing but soread fear, uncertainty and doubt; it's almost like you're working against the platforms you claim to be providing tips for.

@thisismissem @feditips @Mastodon I'm not familiar with any registered non-profit orgs that say "Nah, we've got enough donations now, let's not ask for any more money"

Emelia 👸🏻Jul 6, 2023

@bitflipped @feditips @Mastodon okay, but if they had received a huge sum of money, wouldn't you expect to see that money at work by hiring more people?

You'd see them doing stuff with the money because they desperately needed money to continue to grow & maintain the software.

Aeáro, a SeaWyrm

@thisismissem @feditips @Mastodon

One could also argue the opposite: Masto begging for donations here shows that Masto needs money - which makes it more likely that they'd be interested in taking money from Facebook, not less.

As far as "conspiracy theories" go, you've gotta remember that none of this is happening in a vacuum. Facebook is an established company with a long history. They've done plenty of nasty, manipulative crap in the past that shows they don't deserve anyone's trust. We should all be highly suspicious of them by default - or as the saying goes, "...fool me twice, shame on me."

Of course, that's Facebook, not Mastodon. But the question isn't whether Eugen is conspiring with them. It's whether Eugen is being too credulous about their claims, or finding excuses to ignore his own doubts, or something along those lines. If they offered him money, he has more incentive to talk himself into working with them more closely. Ditto for admins of any big instances who have been approached by Facebook.

bazkie bumpercar | unfluencer Jul 6, 2023

@feditips @Mastodon so much naivety in the comments.

The only goal for a public company is to extract value from something, and siphon it to its shareholders. That's it. That's the only goal. By law, no less!

We need to kill it with fire. Defederate instantly.

Fritz Bauer♟️⚜️

Jul 8, 2023

@bazkie
Abso -bloody- lutely.

@feditips @Mastodon

Dale Price Jul 6, 2023

@feditips I’ve heard rumors regarding payments from Musk to various fediverse tip accounts to spread FUD about mastodon, which are difficult to confirm or deny.

Could you set the record straight?

woolie Jul 6, 2023

@feditips Why should they commit to anything?

Helge Heß Jul 6, 2023

@wooliex @feditips Because their user base might care. It is totally fine if the answer is a "no", but asking the questions and expecting an answer seems perfectly reasonable to me.