FediTips has moved!

The official Mastodon app is doing something new which is potentially very dangerous to the existence of Mastodon and the Fediverse.

The official Mastodon app now prompts users to join mastodon.social by default, when previously it prompted them to pick a server. If you're new this may sound harmless, but let me explain.

The entire point of this place is to be a social network spread out on as many servers as possible (the reasons are here: https://fedi.tips/why-is-the-fediverse-on-so-many-separate-servers/).

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Why is the Fediverse on so many separate servers? | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse

An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse

Apr 20, 2023 at 9:33pmWeb
Show threadFediTips has moved!Apr 20, 2023

There is technically still an option on the official app to "pick my own server", but it's much harder to read or notice, and new users will probably click the mastodon.social button without even understanding the other button.

Mastodon.social just passed 1 million registered users about a week ago, out of a total network of approx 7 to 11 million users (dependiing on how you count them).

Most of these users probably signed up via the official app.

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Show threadFediTips has moved!Apr 20, 2023

For the first time ever, the most common way to sign up on the Fediverse is now directing people to sign up on one specific server, rather than making them choose.

This will make mastodon.social grow even more quickly than it has before, and future waves of new Mastodon users may end up mostly there. It's very plausible this one server could become the majority of the Fediverse in the near future.

If that happens, the Fediverse would no longer be protected from buyouts by nasty people.

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Show threadFediTips has moved!Apr 20, 2023

Yes, signing up on one server is much easier for people who are used to centralised services like Twitter, Facebook etc.

But as we have seen from Twitter, such a setup leaves you at the mercy of Musk-type takeovers. For-profit social networks do not like federation, they hate it as they see it as competition. It is very likely that a commercial takeover of a majority server would defederate it, to prevent people leaving and simplify its maintenance.

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Show threadFediTips has moved!Apr 20, 2023

This is not an attack on Eugen, I don't do those. Most of what @Gargron does is amazing, the Fedi owes him a great deal, and the fact he turned down large sums of VC money recently shows great integrity.

But eventually most people in that position will crack. Ever larger sums of money can make even the nicest people sell out.

If most of the Fediverse is on mastodon.social, it WILL receive more takeover bids. If it grows even further, these bids will become even higher.

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Show threadFediTips has moved!Apr 20, 2023

So, what can be done?

1. Tell new people to use third party apps, they are better anyway and have more features. More info at https://fedi.tips/which-apps-can-i-use-should-i-use-the-official-app-or-a-third-party-app/

2. Tell people to sign up on the website. Mastodon's official site at https://joinmastodon.org is still asking people to choose a server, and is very professionally laid out. (I've also got my own amateurish effort at https://fedi.garden.)

3. If you're comfortable using github, give a thumbs up at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-ios/issues/1023

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Which Mastodon apps can I use? Should I use the official app or a third party app? Are there other options? | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse

An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse

Show threadSeth GoldsteinApr 20, 2023
@feditips I feel like this is the same pains we feel in the WordPress space. OS let's forking happen. This might happen. Who knows. But thanks for a great thread.
Show threadSocial Justice Warrior🦍Apr 21, 2023
@seth What does OS stand for?
Show threadFolkerApr 21, 2023
@seth @feditips
It's not pain, it is user friendliness.🙂
Show threadPJ "Vote Green" CoffeyApr 21, 2023

@folkerschamel

Some user friendliness in the user sign up process is good. I suggest that you read the thread again.

Twitter got bought. If someone offered me a mere billion dollars I'd sell Mastodon.social were it mine to sell.

$1,000,000,0000. Convert that to your local currency and think about your family and friends and how you could make the world a better place with that money.

I'd do it and not even feel guilty TBPH.

@seth @feditips

Show threadPJ "Vote Green" CoffeyApr 21, 2023

@folkerschamel @seth @feditips

I mean hell... you know what else appears "user friendly" allowing users to pick short, dictionary names like "password" as passwords.

Same vibes.

Show threadm0xEEApr 21, 2023
@Homebrewandhacking
But won't the federated nature make it even easier to migrate elsewhere in case of Musk-like buyout? It made people come here from Twitter in waves and this time they have to learn how to use new software, have to pick an instance, have no way to keep their followers… In case mastodon.social get new admins, people should already know other instances they like, and they can keep their social connections.
@folkerschamel @seth @feditips
Show threadm0xEEApr 21, 2023
@Homebrewandhacking
I don't even think that such buyout is reasonable. Had someone done something similar to what Musk does to Twitter to any particular Fedi instance, people'd be out of the door in a matter of week if not less.
On the other hand, picking your Fedi instance when you don't even know what Fedi is VERY confusing — what I did is went with the first one run by the company I trusted and I still like it although I started hosting my own one since then🤷
@folkerschamel @seth @feditips
Show threadPJ "Vote Green" CoffeyApr 21, 2023

@m0xee

I understand where you're coming from (4.1k posts this month is quite impressive, you clearly like it here).

This is my third account, so I don't disagree that the UX is not great.

I think that onboarding people into .social is contrary to good decentralised practice. Where are the extra moderators coming from? With so many users, Mastodon.social _already_ had complaints of bad moderation.

This looks guaranteed to lead to its defederation.

Show thread🦾ChatGPT hyphen🤖Apr 21, 2023
@Homebrewandhacking
No, not in one month, I'm not that fruitful, 4k total, in 2 years probably 😅
Stats might be skewered because this instance uses an old version of Masto.
But I do like it here! I'm all into what a lot of people here are in, like cats and obscure computer architectures…
And even for me it wasn't easy to make my mind up. While I was reading stuff on Twitter a lot, I never had an account I was looking for some alternative that is more serious about privacy. In fact it was ProtonMail that pointed me in the right direction.
They had a Mastodon account (they have left since, but now returned) so I realized that a decentralized alternative exists, then I realized that "social" thing by Purism uses the same protocol and I said: "Why not try it?"
Again, I am tech-savvy, I'm online well since the 90-ies and even for me making a choice of instance (will this one really be the right one for me?) was a little confusing — self hosting the thing you know nothing about is out of the question. A lot of people used centralized media all their life (doesn't necessary mean they are bad people) — I can't even imagine what it's like for them.
I do agree that funneling everyone to a single instance is bad practice and something is to be improved. Still, making a person pick something without giving them a taste of it first and not giving them time to hang around is confusing. Some might thing that it's a good filter to keep outsiders away, but I don't think that way at all, Fedi deserves to keep it spirit, but it doesn't mean it has to be an obscure closed circle. On top of that, who does it keep out? I don't consider myself not smart or knowledgeable enough, I wasn't born into the Web 2.0 things, I lived through them (and didn't like them), but I signed up not long ago and I remember quite well that even I had doubts.
@m0xee @folkerschamel @seth @feditips
Show threadm0xEEApr 21, 2023
@Homebrewandhacking Sorry for using my other account to reply, but I really don't like it when I have to split my reply into five parts when it gets long and 500 characters is the limit I have on Librem Social instance.
Show threadAaronApr 21, 2023

@m0xee @Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips

"But won't the federated nature make it even easier to migrate elsewhere in case of Musk-like buyout?"

Not if they defederate the server before announcing the takeover.

Show threadE. ChangApr 25, 2023
@m0xee @Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips If it were me trying to take over a large server and monetize it, the first thing I would do is disable the functionality that lets users download their follows/followers/content, and make it impossible to "migrate" an account. Make the cost of leaving too high to justify, then you have a walled garden from which you can harvest subscription fees and ad revenue.
Show threadm0xEEApr 25, 2023
@knottedthreads
It is like that in theory, but you have to do it gradually and time your moves. If you cripple the functionality too much it'll cause a backlash, the trick is not to reach the critical mass when most would be ready to leave.Doing that to media that was originally decentralized makes it even harder, it's like messing with open source projects. Oracle acquired OpenOffice and MySQL with Sun and… Meet LibreOffice and MariaDB 😁
@Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips
Show threadFolkerApr 26, 2023

@knottedthreads @m0xee @Homebrewandhacking @seth @feditips

Yes, this possibility is a design flaw in the current protocols.

But this is not the fault of the users. They should not be punished for that by a bad user experience.

It's the job of all developers to fix that.

Show threadMike FraserApr 22, 2023
@Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips Yup, then my job would be how to get rid of all my money before I die. Not a bad gig.
Show threadMark Shane HaydenApr 21, 2023

@folkerschamel that is a matter of opinion.

Having a dominant mobile app with a default to sign up on the dominant server only simplifies the onboarding process, primarily leveraging people being accustomed to the old centralised model. Beyond that it diminishes and even could harm the experience, because in many ways dot-social is among the most user-hostile servers in the fediverse (the mainstream fediverse anyways), and people who have only ever signed up to dot-social may not even know that! For example:

1. It has a million people signed up with no sense of local community

2. It also has probably the lowest moderator-to-user ratio of all mainstream servers.

3. Consequently its public feeds are the most Twitter-like in some undesirable ways...least of which is trying to sip from the massive firehose of toots to discover people.

4. Because if the above some of the most interesting servers silence or even block dot-social to make the experience more pleasant, so you may be missing out.

@seth @feditips

Show threadFolkerApr 24, 2023

@msh @seth @feditips

"Having a dominant mobile app with a default to sign up on the dominant server only simplifies the onboarding process, primarily leveraging people being accustomed to the old centralised model."

That's exactly the idea.😉

"Beyond that it diminishes and even could harm the experience, because in many ways dot-social is among the most user-hostile servers in the fediverse ... "

Well, every user who agrees with your assessment can very easily choose a different server.🙂

Show threadcymanMar 18, 2025

@folkerschamel @seth @feditips

If it was that it could randomly rotate between servers to sign up to and not default to just one.

Show threadOutOnTheMoorsApr 20, 2023
@feditips That's a change that must be reversed. We need the strength of diversity.
(Yes, I'm on mastodon.social, but I joined when it was smallish.)
Show threadJeenaApr 20, 2023
@CrazyMyra @feditips should we encourage people to move away from mastodon.social?
Show threadLN Apr 20, 2023
@jeena @CrazyMyra @feditips idk I've just been noticing most people I block because I see their bad takes hail from that instance but that's likely at least in part due to the size.
Show threadOutOnTheMoorsApr 20, 2023
@jeena @feditips I don't think it's necessary. I think the point is closer to: don't make ANY instance the default for all new accounts, especially not the biggest existing one
Show threadJeenaApr 20, 2023
@CrazyMyra @feditips I'd agree that it's not necessary but I still think encouraging people to move to other instances would bring more good than bad.
Show threadHughsterApr 21, 2023
@jeena @CrazyMyra @feditips I'm not sure all the encouragement in the world at the moment will make up for the shortcomings in the instance moving process, i.e. losing everyone you've followed (unless you're techy enough to work around that) and all your posts (no workaround possible). I'm pretty tech-savvy and this is the main reason I have no interest in moving, even if I don't like the idea of this server getting too big.
Show threadJeenaApr 21, 2023
@hughster @feditips this is the main reason why I chose to set up my own server from day one.
Show threadHughsterApr 21, 2023
@jeena Fair enough, although I can't see that many Twitter refugees doing that…
Show threadJeenaApr 21, 2023
@hughster yeah I totally understand that most of the people don't really care about their own content but my background is in the #IndieWeb ;)
Show threadCsepp 🌢Apr 21, 2023
@jeena @CrazyMyra @feditips Yes. Should have been doing it for years. Massive instances are in no one's interest, because an instance you can't afford to defederate from can do anything to its rules and change owners any number of times, and no one will be able to hold it accountable.
Monopolies are always bad.
Show threadSeanApr 21, 2023

@CrazyMyra @feditips when it was smallish? Really?

{looks at profile, notices that account was started 4 years before Musk took over birdsite, and when mastodon.social was only two years old}

Um, yeah, that is a bit of an understatement that you were on it when it was "smallish".

You unlocked "early adopter" achievement
https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/16879/screenshots/2958888/drewhansen_dailychallenge_016.gif

Show threadDoubledadoApr 21, 2023
@Sean @CrazyMyra @feditips this comment is a personal attack and does not add to the conversation. @CrazyMyra you have the right to be on any server at anytime and no one should be shaming anyone for what server they are on or when they joined. Everyone is still welcome, right?
Show threadSeanApr 21, 2023

@bigTanuki @feditips

Lighthearted acknowledgement that @CrazyMyra is unnecessarily defending that she is aware of the skin deep appearance of being on the instance that she's is pointing, the very valid criticism, of the default instance becoming the majority instance isn't anywhere close to an attack.

But do you boo.

Show threadDoubledadoApr 21, 2023
@Sean @feditips @CrazyMyra thank you for addressing that it was lighthearted. Clarifications are always welcome. 👍🏼
Show threadSeanApr 21, 2023

@bigTanuki @feditips @CrazyMyra might want to check on intent before hurling accusations that a toot with stage directions ({checks profile,...}) and a goofy gif link might not be a personal attack.

Give people the benefit of the doubt, trust until they give you reason not to. Or to simplify it even more: treat others how you'd want to be treated. That's just one to grow on, because it's better "the more you know"
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/014/033/The_More_You_Know_0-0_screenshot.jpg

Show threadDoubledadoApr 21, 2023
@Sean @feditips @CrazyMyra you are absolutely right 🧢
Show threadOutOnTheMoorsApr 21, 2023
@Sean @bigTanuki @feditips slightly raised eyebrow on first read ... read on ... several other unrelated comments that add to the conversation ... conclusion: gentle piss-take ... which is welcome.
We're often far too earnest on here
Show threadJuleApr 21, 2023
@CrazyMyra
You could move your account to another instance to strengthen the distributed fediverse.
@feditips
Show threadFolkerApr 21, 2023
@CrazyMyra @feditips You can migrate to another server anytime you want.
Show threadElliotApr 25, 2023
@CrazyMyra @feditips it’s possible to move at any time, something a seasoned user is better at making a choice and understanding the reasons to do.
Show threadOutOnTheMoorsApr 25, 2023
@elliot True (mastodon.social was my third instance), but experience of human nature suggests a significant number - even a majority - won't move on. The bigger this one gets, the more it feels like CSM, and a lot of new arrivals are just looking for a new Twitter.
Show threadFerles  Apr 20, 2023
@feditips I started on Mastodon.social, but always planned that to be a temporary thing. Just stayed long enough to figure out Mastodon and then find a server that I liked.
Show threadWu Evar 🇪🇺🇺🇦Apr 20, 2023

@Ferles

You are probably one of 1000 or even 10000 actually doing this. I think it’s a real dilemma. On the hand people
are so used to the “centralized” approach of social media, that’s a real barrier to join - on the other hand it’s only a creating another Twitter with millions of users on one server, hoping for the mods to keep up with this number of people. Atm “the nice guys” try it out - but wait for the trolls and the hate. 😕

@feditips

Show threadTerrorBite 🦁Apr 21, 2023
@maschinentraum @Ferles @feditips Ironically, meow.social has become the centralised server of furries, with over 10k users (though through no fault of its own; various instances including the once-largest furry instance snouts.online ended up shutting down, and meow took in the refugees)
Show threadFerles  Apr 21, 2023
@TerrorBite @maschinentraum @feditips *nods* I have looked at other servers and did have an account on vulpine that I was planning to shift fully over to, but that is not going to work at this point.
Show threadElliotApr 25, 2023
@Ferles @feditips This is the way.