Mark WatsonMar 2, 2023
Christopher Mims

Turns out the existence of an "alpha" wolf is a myth.

It was based on old/bad experiments, conducted when unrelated wolves were thrown together in captivity.

In actual wild wolves, packs are just families. There's no dominant alpha battling for the top spot -- and in the rare cases there is, it's an alpha *female* wolf.

Insert obvious implications for the use of this term in human societies.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-alpha-wolf-idea-a-myth/

Is the Alpha Wolf Idea a Myth?

The idea that wolf packs are led by a merciless dictator, or alpha wolf, comes from old studies of captive wolves. In the wild, wolf packs are simply families

Scientific American
Mar 1, 2023 at 6:45pmWeb
Show threadMike DMar 1, 2023
@mimsical
Show threadNellieMar 2, 2023
@md @mimsical 🥳🥳🥳😅😅😅
Show threadBeeCycling has movedMar 2, 2023
@md @mimsical 'Fellas, does having an actual wife mean you're gay?'
Show threadLt.Cpl Хуёвый ПчеловодMar 2, 2023
@beecycling @md @mimsical Yes. As a matter of fact, some in Alpha Male Academia believe that incel is peak alpha male masculinity.
Show threadBeeCycling has movedMar 2, 2023
@hu_logic @md @mimsical Good grief. What a bunch of weirdos.
Show threadLt.Cpl Хуёвый ПчеловодMar 2, 2023
@beecycling @md @mimsical "Whatever keeps them from reproducing" I always say
Show threadKoochulainnMar 2, 2023
@md I like reminding guys who follow "alpha wolf" wankers (like Andrew T**e) that wolves that follow "alphas" are called "betas" @mimsical
Show threadLt.Cpl Хуёвый ПчеловодMar 2, 2023
@Koochulainn @md @mimsical I like my avocado toast, so I'll be happy if I settle somewhere in the Delta - Theta male range. But not Iota lower...
Show threadKoochulainnMar 2, 2023

@hu_logic
If its a choice between Hooters and a tapas bar...who would want to be an alpha?

Come to the beta-side - we have croquetas.

@md @mimsical

Show threadLt.Cpl Хуёвый ПчеловодMar 2, 2023
@Koochulainn @md @mimsical People who proclaim they are defending our "freedoms" do seem to have ton of rules and restrictions about what they consider to be a "man"
Show threadKoochulainnMar 2, 2023

@hu_logic

The first rule of Strong Independent Man Club is to do what you are told.

@md @mimsical

Show threadGabbo the wafrn dev guyMar 2, 2023

@[email protected] As a spanish person with a vegetarian fiancé, let me tell you a thing


ITS HELL TO FIND VEGGIE FOOD HERE IN SPAIN.

Mike D (@[email protected])

2.48K Posts, 381 Following, 247 Followers · Born and raised in upstate NY. Lived in NYC for a while and then Los Angeles. Now in Oakland. Computers are my life. I don't trust the system, the cloud, or the computers. #1A, #progressive, #EFF, #science, #CivilRights, #equality, #FoodSovereignty, #LGBTQIA Ally, #cats, #dogs, #cars, #ClassicCars, #WeirdCarMastodon

SFBA.social
Show threadOpenDNA⚙️Mar 2, 2023
@gabboman @md You're reinforcing my biases, because I was wondering if "vegan tapas" was even possible. It sounds like a wine bar.
Show threadGabbo the wafrn dev guyMar 2, 2023

@[email protected]@[email protected] vegan tapas... you could get some peanuts but that is not a tapa!


it usually is ham, chorizo, or cheese. Cheese can be vegetarian, BUTT vegan? oh you're in for a bad time

OpenDNA⚙️ (@[email protected])

1.49K Posts, 723 Following, 365 Followers · Big fan of pluralist multiculturalism, transnationalism, and rolling-your-own tech.

Mastodon @ SDF
Show threadOlivier Slabbers Mar 2, 2023
@gabboman @opendna @md isn’t fried pigs ear on top of the tapas menu usually? That’s way too alpha for my likings.
Show threadGabbo the wafrn dev guyMar 2, 2023

@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected] fried pig ear? haven't heard of it, at least in my area (south of spain)


we have very good iberic cured ham. best shit ever

OpenDNA⚙️ (@[email protected])

1.49K Posts, 723 Following, 365 Followers · Big fan of pluralist multiculturalism, transnationalism, and rolling-your-own tech.

Mastodon @ SDF
Show threadOlivier Slabbers Mar 2, 2023
@md @opendna @gabboman People warned me about oreja de cerdo as you wouldn’t know what it is if you don’t speak Spanish, and typically it is the cheapest thing on the list (yes I’m dutch).
Show threadGabbo the wafrn dev guyMar 2, 2023

@[email protected] seems to be a thing, but havent heard of it in my area. Might be a big deal near madrid or northeast!


spain is quite big and very diverse, but might be my area being weird haha

Show threadMike DMar 2, 2023
@gabboman @Ik @opendna
I had iberico ham daily when in Spain. So good!!
Show threadGrumpy Grimnir Mar 2, 2023
@md @mimsical Personally given those two choices I'd rather be a beta than a self-declared alpha.
Show threadResunaMar 3, 2023

@grumpygrimnir @md @mimsical My brain automatically jumped the rails and ended up in Brave New World.

"I'm awfully glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard. And then we are much better than the Gammas and Deltas. Gammas are stupid. They all wear green, and Delta children wear khaki."

Show threadBill SeitzMar 1, 2023
@mimsical https://davemech.org/wolf-news-and-information/
Wolf News and Information

Show threadStan CareyMar 1, 2023
@mimsical @matthewbattles Some scholars were ahead of the curve on this. Barry Lopez, in "Of Wolves and Men" (1978), described the alpha analogy as "poor" with respect to females, and said the male hunter–male leader image of the wolf pack is "misleading but, unconsciously, I am sure, it is perpetuated by males, who dominate this field of study." His book has a lot of nuance on the nature of a pack's hierarchy in the wild.
Show threadMatthew BattlesMar 1, 2023
@stancarey @mimsical Indeed, the Mowat comes back to me now! Much good work on pack dynamics among Isle Royale wolves, too. I think of how much this misprision informs popular attitudes about how we relate to domestic dogs, too.
Show threadElzi VolkMar 5, 2023
@stancarey Exactly!
Show threadDavid SenkMar 1, 2023

@mimsical anyone that’s ever had female dogs knows it’s the girls who are the real bosses of the pack…

So much animal “knowledge” is based on bad studies, it’s incredible…

I’m glad better studies are being performed!

Show threadS Callisto BurwitzMar 1, 2023
@mimsical the other sad tidbit is, that the guy who started this theory also debunked it years ago and few people listen to him.
That said, the (original) alpha wolf theory is imho helpful in an analogy to prison mindset. It described lonely disconnected wolves in a confined space forced to live with strangers.
Show threadRichard WalkerMar 2, 2023

@mimsical Cool story - with a strong ring of truth. Nice to have one's previous beliefs overturned.

"When keeping wolves in captivity, humans typically throw together adult animals with no shared kinship. In these cases, a dominance hierarchy arises,"

I wonder if this happens with human groups? Such a pity #DavidGraeber is no longer with us.

Show threadNellieMar 2, 2023
@mimsical Stunning! *boost
Show threadDieuMar 2, 2023
@mimsical But White Mountain remains a great song!
Show threadMichael UtzMar 2, 2023

@mimsical

I live in a country where there's lots of street dogs. Near our house, there's a pack of stray/wild dogs that all live like a family.

One dog in the area seems to be the "top" dog, and she's a sweetheart. Sometimes new dogs come by to challenge her, but they eventually fall in with the family and live happily together under her benevolent rule.

In return, she always makes sure that the smaller/weaker ones eat our scraps before the stronger ones.

Show thread3rdSectorMichaelMar 2, 2023
@mimsical the poor guy who published the original story has spent decades trying to tell people he was wrong but the idea had taken hold.
Show thread3rdSectorMichaelMar 2, 2023

@mimsical

https://youtu.be/tNtFgdwTsbU

"Alpha" Wolf?

YouTube
Show threadjugMar 2, 2023

@mimsical
In a world where resources are scarce (i.e. captivity) they fight for the "best spot". Aggression and domination occur.

But when everybody's needs are met …

Marx my words: there's some social commentary here, but I can't quite put my finger on it. 🤔

Show threadChristel van der BoomMar 2, 2023
@mimsical “Alpha male" is the early version of a male, before testing and bug fixes. Unstable and not suitable for the public. 😉
Show threadphrewfufMar 2, 2023

@mimsical the study has been revoked by its own authors. Main takeaway was that the wolves were psychologically damaged due to living in captivity.

What that means about all the fragile men still believing the original study is up to your imagination.

Show threadOliver HuntMar 2, 2023
@mimsical and the people who published the original research suggesting an "alpha" spent the rest of their careers trying to undo the nonsense, to no avail because shitheads want to justify being shitty to other people, and many.most managers are shitheads who need to believe that they're inherently superior to other people.
Show threadOggieMar 2, 2023

@mimsical I thought this was fairly well known now- as that article says, the person who created the term has been fighting against it for decades, realizing that not only was he wrong initially (on a few vectors) but the entire concept as he wrote it has been wildly misunderstood.

I don't blame him, mind you- this is how theories are put out and tested.

It's mostly just unfortunate that this is something people think.

It does mean you can mostly just assume anyone using alpha is an idiot.

Show threadElzenMar 2, 2023
@mimsical @booteille Saw this capture around there the other day. Found it accurate.

https://social.cybre.town/system/media_attachments/files/109/204/262/533/985/479/original/493a9dd9fc2a64d0.jpg
Show threadJonathan HarkerMar 2, 2023
@mimsical the really tragic thing is there's a seemingly fashionable dog behaviour and training theory based on being unbelievably cruel to puppies and young dogs in order to assert yourself as their alpha. Which is just nuts, first of all dogs aren't wolves, second what is *wrong* with you that it sounds ok to abuse animals, but for so many other reasons too.
Show threadCat, owner of hue-man.Mar 2, 2023
@mimsical this has been known for a while. Also the “alpha” males in primate societies aren’t the most aggressive but the most political so it’s also a bad parallel there. Not to mention that the reason those exist is for reproductive reasons and humans don’t typically organize themselves like that.
Show threadGeoff WinklessMar 2, 2023
@mimsical I keep seeing this and i wouldn't pretend to disagree (dogs are clearly the same, the idea of a "top dog" is also pretty much debunked) but my understanding of the alpha male thing was that it's from apes, not wolves, isn't it? Has that been similarly debunked?
Show threadChristopher MimsMar 2, 2023

@Geoff that's a whole other fascinating discussion. ape social hierarchies seem to be adapted to food distribution (really!)

a prof of mine once said he thought lemurs were a better model for most human societies than gorillas -- lemurs are matriarchal

Show threadGlobaltomMar 2, 2023
@mimsical As they said on QI, the original researcher has spent the rest of his life telling everyone he was wrong.
Show threadAlaric Aloor🐕🏎⚽️🥃Mar 2, 2023

@mimsical

LOLLLLL...combine this piece with the one below quoting the man who coined the term, "alpha wolf" and how it no longer applies, and all the right wing 🤡s who have been posturing as "alphas" are going to have hide in their sad little holes👇🏾

Hopefully this horrible misconception ceases to be used in society 🤞🏾

https://www.theroot.com/maybe-you-should-stop-calling-yourself-an-alpha-male-1803141333

Maybe You Should Stop Calling Yourself an Alpha Male

In my experience, confessions are pretty fuckin’ useless. Never has being on the receiving end of a confession resulted in me feeling happy or relieved or satisfied. They’ve all been pretty inconvenient and/or bewildering, leaving me resentful of the party who voluntarily purged long-held secrets and then sighed a…

The Root
Show threadChristopher MimsMar 2, 2023
@alaric truly amazing. ty for sharing this!
Show threadNuke the LukeMar 2, 2023
@mimsical it truly is the case that when you scratch the surface of any of these Big Ideas you get reductive and/or outdated scientific theories--of social organization sure, but also intelligence, gender, reproductive biology, evolution, the human immune system... It’s enough to make you wonder if there’s something happening in k-12 science education that gives a lot of students a false sense of mastery over some of the most complex concepts imaginable.
Show threadChristopher MimsMar 2, 2023
@LukeYoquinto hmmm. I wonder. Is that the source of it? Or something bigger and upstream of that?
Show threadNuke the LukeMar 2, 2023
@mimsical If I gave an easy, facile answer to this it would not be in keeping with the spirit of my comment!
Show threadNuke the LukeMar 2, 2023
@mimsical Here's a wrinkle though--when it comes to climate change, the middle-school-level science (every kid basically gets the greenhouse effect) goes out the window. All of a sudden it's triple-bankshot theories about conspiracies and corrupt models. So that seems to suggest something upstream of education is at work.
Show threadottoMar 2, 2023
@mimsical This reflects a human cognitive fault that also allowed social darwinists to ignore the fitness advantages of cooperation and extol the cut-throat version of fitness.
Show threadhpincketMar 2, 2023
@mimsical I haven’t opened the article yet, but if your summary is faithful this would be an example that doesn’t follow Betteridge’s law of headlines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines
Betteridge's law of headlines - Wikipedia

Show threadAndrewMar 2, 2023
@mimsical We’re all switches now?
Show threadRick MycroftMar 2, 2023
So much for all the manosphere types who have to create a fake hierarchy to put themselves on top of it.
Show threadGuy FleegmanMar 2, 2023
@mimsical
On the other hand, human societies are much more like the first scenario - unrelated individuals thrown together - rather than just families.
Show threadJohn (he/him)Mar 2, 2023
@mimsical So it turns out that the whole alpha male thing was just some dude mansplaining for the wolves?
Show threadBruceMar 2, 2023

@mimsical

Gorillas and chimps are more closely related to homo sapiens & their behavior is not the same as wolves. Insert obvious implications for the use of analogies between wolves and human societies.

Show threadAnna B. OlsonMar 2, 2023

@mimsical Note the guy now speaking out against this belief is the one who came up with it in the first place.

This is how science should work: new information under new circumstances should add to or replace outdated research.