LongTallSallymander
Eugen RochkoThere were two notable moderation incidents on mastodon.social and mastodon.online in the past 24 hours that I would like to address. In the first, a post was wrongfully removed due to a report claiming it contained a dogwhistle, and in the second, a person was wrongfully suspended due to a report claiming it's an impersonator. Both were undone and apologies issued.
The moderation team is bigger than ever and so is the amount of reports we have to process. We're dealing with unprecedented growth despite having closed registrations on these servers weeks ago. Some false positives are unavoidable, but we understand these mistakes are upsetting and unacceptable, and we are trying to do better. Luckily all moderator actions can be appealed and reversed.
Rich@Gargron How many mods are there here?
Ms. Penny Oaken@rmbles @Gargron while it’s normal to want transparency regarding moderation policy, “how many” is a detail that would allow monkeywrenchers to plan abuse of the report system and harassment or moderators.
We should expect policy transparency and for admins to acknowledge mistakes, but details won’t help us know if the right thing is being done.
(Exception: the answer “not enough moderators” is almost always true)
kaukamieli@PennyOaken
I don't see how that's true. They can flood you anyway without numbers too. And it would be relevant info for selecting where to migrate. I want good mod to masses ratio.
@rmbles @Gargron
I don't see how that's true. They can flood you anyway without numbers too. And it would be relevant info for selecting where to migrate. I want good mod to masses ratio.
@rmbles @Gargron
@kaukamieli @rmbles @Gargron the analogy I use when explaining the security implications of publicly detailing your moderation team / resources is this:
Your moderators, and the tech they use (Reddit’s AutoModerator, for instance) are directly analogous to an Intrusion Detection System, an IDS.
You don’t disclose the configuration, location, or number of your IDS appliances, or intruders circumvent them.
Your moderators, and the tech they use (Reddit’s AutoModerator, for instance) are directly analogous to an Intrusion Detection System, an IDS.
You don’t disclose the configuration, location, or number of your IDS appliances, or intruders circumvent them.
@kaukamieli @rmbles @Gargron if you’re shopping for instances, you’re going to get more mileage out of “does this instance have a public moderation policy, and does it incorporate a way to handle ban appeals, mistakes (by users and moderators), and improvement?”. Unless an instance is run by a dedicated social media corporation, “fast” moderation is the trade off from “Fast, Good, Cheap” and “more moderators” only makes diminishing returns on “fast”, sometimes at the expense of “good”
Fassreifen@PennyOaken @rmbles @Gargron can we please not use ‘monkeywrenchers’ as a pejorative term. Read the Edward Abbey novel. People who deliberately abuse the mod system have nothing in common with Abbey’s term and it’s currency in the civil disobedience tradition.
Theodora Lau@Gargron thank you for all that you do!
Carol Hedges@Riotgrandma72 I agree completely. 💜
Randahl Fink@Gargron will further registrations on this server be closed forever, or is there a known time frame?
riiku ☂️@randahl you can always register on another server (preferably smaller, so it's better moderated) and you still can use all the amazing federated features Mastodon can offer, and it'll ease the server load on the mastodon.social instance
Dieu
✨buff dog himbo✨
Joe ❌👑@not2b I see completely how that would make sense in the US, Joe. However, I live in the tiny country of Denmark (5.8 million people), and so far we only have 3 servers with very few users, and I just do not know if those instances will still be running, say, two years from now. That is why I joined the main server.
@randahl Perhaps that could change if Mastodon continues to expand, especially once there's a significant population that wants to mostly write in Danish (which might not include you). If Musk is successful in killing off Twitter perhaps that will happen.
IonTigerHawk
Sunny Willow 🌞They should merge and name it $8Chan.
Basexperience 🏴@randahl @not2b @sunnywillow @ZoidsTigerX if that’s all yours, I tip my hat. Genuine internet wins. 🎩
@basexperience @randahl @not2b @ZoidsTigerX
I saw it over on the birdsite and thought it was perfect. I'd been mocking, then blocking, all the people who paid for their checkmark. I admit birdsite brings out the worst in me.
Doofus@sunnywillow @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl Or h8chan. I'm sure I'm not the only person who thought of that.
☢️ #DestroyGQP POSUT tRUmp
James 🦉 #FBPE 
Reido@freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl Truth Social is owned by the same folks who brought you the misinformation site, Occupy Democrats. Hard pass.
Leroooooy Jenkins@reido @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl
This is disinformation. Truth Social was founded by Trump, running on a very modified Masto installation with a custom frontend. Tribel Social is the platform owned by the brothers involved with Occupy Democrats, which they've been promoting while trying to smear Mastodon as "hosting" the right wing platform Truth Social to discourage users from Masto instances..
This is disinformation. Truth Social was founded by Trump, running on a very modified Masto installation with a custom frontend. Tribel Social is the platform owned by the brothers involved with Occupy Democrats, which they've been promoting while trying to smear Mastodon as "hosting" the right wing platform Truth Social to discourage users from Masto instances..
@evilrobert @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl Sorry, my bad. Not disinformation but misinformation, as in: I screwed up! My apologies.
@evilrobert @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl Does it make more sense to delete my errant toot or leave it there so readers know what you were reacting to? What do you think?
@reido @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl I'd personally leave it since you completely took accountability for it. Takes a lot to admit a mistake!
MrsWhatsit@reido @evilrobert @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl it's fine.
We all have oopsies. I learned something from the responses. Thank you for the apology.
We all have oopsies. I learned something from the responses. Thank you for the apology.
Maleficurious@reido I personally would leave it up, it's a good teaching moment and positive reinforcement tbh
@Maleficurious Thanks. Good thought.
@evilrobert @reido @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl
The cross-pollinstion gets confusing & there is a lot of smearing going on. Mastodon seems to have stayed out of the nastiness.
@evilrobert @reido @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl
Does Truth Social connect to Mastodon instances? I haven't come across any hate trolls & MaGas
@Rainbird42true @reido @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl They made it a stand alone instance and didn't connected it to the federation. (I'm sure it would have would up de-federated with a quickness based on a lot of the beliefs posted there anyway.)
TS didn't even want to admit that that they were using open source. https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/29/mastodon-issues-30-day-ultimatum-to-trumps-social-network-over-misuse-of-its-code/
@evilrobert @reido @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl
Thank you & relief
@reido @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl
New one. I have my doubts.
Which people are in common between TruthSocial & Occupy?
@Rainbird42true @freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl Oh my God, my bad entirely. I meant Tribel and slipped up. Jeez, what a terrible faux pas. Sorry about that.
British Tech Guru@freequaybuoy @ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl and why not? The best place to know what is going on there is to have a listening presence there. That way you can't be surprised when something untoward happens. Remember... They walk among us.
AndiNH
Canoehead🛶@ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl so the downward spiral accelerates as Twitter circles the drain. Impressive.
Robsterthermidor@ZoidsTigerX @not2b @randahl a merger based on weakness is always a winner - unless of course you’re the customer.
@ZoidsTigerX @randahl I really doubt that Elno wants to throw even more money away by doing that. The former guy might want that, since he stands to lose big money if Truth Social fails, and maybe he hopes Musk will bail him out and that's why he is saying he won't come back to Twitter even though he was un-suspended. But Twitter is bleeding cash already.
@randahl sh!t, I didn't even think of this, you're not wrong
Galactico@Gargron keep up the superb work!
Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦@Gargron Thank you!
Harry Keller@Gargron Thank you for all the work you’re doing! Must be hard, suddenly being in this situation under the spotlight, with all the attention and expectations. Hope you also get some rest! 🫰
Romanovich 🇺🇦@Gargron Thank you very much. I really like this social network. It is really easy and comfortable to create content here. Once again, thank you very much for Mastodon, have a nice day and prosperity.
@Gargron as opposed to twitter where you could easily get suspended and ignored for weeks, sending appeals into the void without knowing if any real person would ever read it
Izzy Jayasinghe@Gargron You haven’t reversed the massive dent in the trust and trauma for those on the receiving end however. Apologies are important, but they wash over quickly. Where is the evidence that they will learn, and that similar mistakes won’t be made. “Moderator actions can be appealed & reversed” is hardly a guarantee of safety.
@i_jayas @Gargron Accountability and having a positive, articulable, and enactable plan for improvement (to counter & prevent future issues) is an important skill for leading any team, especially a team that impacts trust & safety.
Many professionals & experienced people in moderation / infoscience for social media / trust & safety are well aware that an apology without having a plan to avoid future problems is an empty apology. It is “We made a mistake, & it remains likely to happen again”
Many professionals & experienced people in moderation / infoscience for social media / trust & safety are well aware that an apology without having a plan to avoid future problems is an empty apology. It is “We made a mistake, & it remains likely to happen again”
Tristen Grant 🖌@i_jayas What would you like to happen?
@tristen Thanks for asking. @PennyOaken sums this up very well. Questions need to be asked on whether there is enough cultural intelligence amongst those moderating the server. For example, are they all middle class cishet white men who cannot distinguish a far-right dog whistle from a the experiences of socially marginalised people. If the answer is “no”, what kind of people need to be recruited into these teams to make them more robust?
@i_jayas So a more diverse moderation team. I can get behind this, but it won't guarantee that mistakes won't happen. With moderation and site management, there should also be different voices/lives, I agree.
@tristen It’s a real start; and I can guarantee that a team with better social intelligence do helluva lot better than hollow apologies. I, like you, want this site to succeed. However the string of complaints relating to racism is just too troubling. It’s a pattern. That’s why I don’t think an apology and call for patience is good enough.
@i_jayas Fair enough. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.
Zeccy@i_jayas @tristen Not only did he personally apologize, the bans were reversed and he even explained why those things happened. This is the largest instance in mastodon, and also the most outspoken from what I can tell, it's completely valid for moderators to make mistakes.
I genuinely don't understand what you expect him to do here
I genuinely don't understand what you expect him to do here