Mastodawn

Strypey Sep 16, 2018

I just happened to have a peek at the current state of the #fediverse page on Wikipedia. At what point did the meaning of "fediverse" expand to describe all the federated social networks, regardless of what protocol they use? Is this now the accepted usage? Do the XMPP social apps count (Movim, Salut-a-Toi)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse

Fediverse - Wikipedia

bhaugen Sep 16, 2018

For me, it's if they can federate. Might be more than one fediverse.

Strypey Sep 16, 2018

@bhaugen "fediverse" originally described only the OStatus apps. The apps federating using Diaspora's protocol set were "The Federation". See Sean's article from a year ago:
https://medium.com/we-distribute/a-quick-guide-to-the-free-network-c069309f334

Usage seems to have drifted since then to being a catch-all term, and I guess I'm just wondering if that's a consensus or if there' anyone who thinks a narrower definition is still useful?

A quick guide to The Free Network - We Distribute - Medium

Today, we dive into two spaces on the federated social web, look at their history and the players behind them, and talk about their potential futures.

We Distribute

Strypey Sep 16, 2018

@bhaugen I'm leery of creating novel vocab for the run of it, but it seems to me that the fediverse now has many more kinds of activities going in it (image-sharing, music-streaming, video-streaming, link-sharing etc). Each of these activities is like a mini-federation of its own, that needs to be explained to newbies somehow.

Strypey Sep 16, 2018

@bhaugen for example, there are 2 fediverse apps focusing on image-sharing; PixelFed and Anfora (formerly Zinat). The first one was Quit.im, which was built as a web client for #GNUsocial, so once the AP plug-in for GS is rolled out (hopefully by the end of the year), if Quit.im is still in active development, there will be 3. If #MediaGoblin rolls out AP support there will be 4. Others may emerge. Does this 'image-verse' sub-federation need it own name and identity so users can understand it?

Another question about the wonderful proliferation of ActivityPub apps: how many of them can somebody use in or from their own pub?

I mean, could something like the flock of apps envisions by the Open App Ecosystem be created using ActivityPub and a flock of compliant apps? Or does each of the apps want to be the center of their own fediverse?

Or to ask the same question another way, how many of those apps could act like ActivityPub plugins?

(Did that all make sense?)

bhaugen Sep 16, 2018

Should have added the link:
https://www.loomio.org/g/exAKrBUp/open-app-ecosystem

Open App Ecosystem

Welcome !<br><br>This is a neutral group to talk about how we can build a suite of interoperable, open source tools which support transparent, democratic, and decentralized organizing.<br><br>It's not a working group, but becomes a resource where all creators can gather to exchange information about their projects and practices.<br><br>Also, if you have an idea or if you want to work on something concrete you can start discussing it here. At some point it's good to create your own loomio's group (or whatever you want to use) to work on your project.<br><br>Don't hesitate to go on this github page to know more about it.<br>

Strypey Sep 16, 2018

@bhaugen these are great questions. As a general response, I have always argued that the key to making the #OpenAppEcosystem work is to make maximum use of common protocols. This includes making use of and supporting free code apps that already use them. Also, helping other apps identify which protocols fit their use cases, and how to implement them.

Strypey Sep 16, 2018

@bhaugen
> how many of them can somebody use in or from their own pub?

Do you mean 1) a pub, as in a public bar? In which case the answer would be any that support the server>client part of AP, or have mobile-friendly web clients, or have their own mobile apps.

OR

2) the same thing I have called a 'digital cafe'? In which case the answer is all of them.
https://www.coactivate.org/projects/disintermedia/blog/2018/06/12/from-digital-cages-to-cooperative-digital-cafes/

Strypey Sep 16, 2018

@bhaugen
> does each of the apps want to be the center of their own fediverse?

Yes and no. Each app has its own project goals, and reasons for their technical choices and priorities, but I think everyone understands that we are stronger together due to the #NetworkEffect. That's why there is such a strong wave of support for implementing AP, even among projects that have their own preferred protocols (eg #Hubzilla and the #IndieWeb)

Kevin Marks Sep 17, 2018

@strypey @bhaugen also, I'd encourage the use of the #indieweb protocols too - adding rel=me and microformats-2 markup is the baseline, handling websub , sending and receiving webmentions, enabling posting via micropub. They're all complementary.

Strypey Sep 17, 2018

@kevinmarks @bhaugen don't the #IndieWeb protocols assume one user per domain? Could a multi-user instance of Mastodon or GNU social implement the IndieWeb protocol set in a way that would work for all the users on their domain? I wonder because I know that #BridgyFed was set up as a bridge between the IW and the #fediverse, to translate between the IW protocols and AP etc.

Kevin Marks Sep 17, 2018

@strypey @bhaugen indieweb is built around urls more than domains on the whole, though there are some domain-centred assumptions. A subdomain model (like Blogger) works well if you're making a service for people

Strypey Sep 17, 2018

@kevinmarks @bhaugen ok, I'm a bit confused. When I say "domain" I mean domain name (ie URL). AP apps don't use subdomains for individual users, they use a URL string. Eg for Mastodon it's domain.foo/@user. For example I'm https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey . How does this fit with how the IndieWeb protocols work?

Strypey (@[email protected])

45.6K Posts, 3.41K Following, 3.26K Followers · Free human being of this Earth. Pākeha in Aotearoa. Be excellent to each other! BTW When I say Trained #MOLE, I mean generative models, what the hype bubble calls "AI", see; https://disintermedia.net.nz/invasion-of-the-mole-trainers/ Email: strypey @disintermedia.net.nz Jabber: [email protected] Matrix: @strypey:matrix.iridescent.nz All my posts here are CC BY-SA 4.0 (or later). #Vegan #Permaculture #PeerProduction #SoftwareFreedom #PlatformCooperatives #FreeCode #CreativeCommons #SciFi #Comedy #Juggling #fedi22

Mastodon - NZOSS

Kevin Marks Sep 20, 2018

@strypey @bhaugen well, that profile has rel=me and microformats2 markup, so indieweb tools can make sense of it http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmastodon.nzoss.nz%2F%40strypey&html=&pretty=on
https://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmastodon.nzoss.nz%2F%40strypey

Strypey Sep 20, 2018

@kevinmarks @bhaugen sorry, you've lost me #ELI5

bhaugen Sep 18, 2018

@strypey
> > how many of them can somebody use in or from their own pub?

> Do you mean 1) a pub, as in a public bar?

I mean pub as my own personal ActivityPub. I answered Strypey in a DM from my personal pub, but am also answering here publicly because I saw this thread again and realized there was no answer in my social.coop timelines.

We're ( @mayel @ivan and @lynnfoster ) experimenting with an agent-centric ActivityPub-based combination economic+social network. More later.

bhaugen Sep 18, 2018

@strypey @mayel @ivan @lynnfoster

I haven't federated much with my personal pub beyond our small group because I don't want much noise at this stage of the experiment.

One roadmap item that might be interesting to people here is, we want to include some Loomio-like governance features along with economic and social interactions. So those are in your main sreams, you don't need to go elsewhere.

If anybody is interested and wants to collaborate on those, please reply to this toot.

Strypey Sep 18, 2018

@bhaugen what app are you running on your pub? Mastodon, or something else? In terms of that roadmap I reckon Hubzilla is more easily extensible than most of them, and most of the dev effort there has gone into a solid back-end, leaving you free to fork the minimal web client for a smoother UX based on those other needs
@mayel @ivan @lynnfoster

bhaugen Sep 18, 2018

@strypey @mayel @ivan @lynnfoster

Here's the code. Based on Pleroma:
https://gitlab.com/OpenCoop/CommonsPub

Mayel's work so far. Ivan is working on a new UI.

Pub of the Commons

GitLab.com